FULL TRANSCRIPT: Please note this transcript was generated by AI and may contain errors.

00:00:01:04 – 00:00:26:11

This is the Portrait System podcast, a show that helps portrait photographers and people hoping to become one, navigate the world of photography, business, money and so much more. We totally keep it real. We share stories about the incredible ups and the very difficult downs when running a photography business. I’m your host, Nikki Closser. And the point of this podcast is for you to learn actionable steps that you can take to grow your own business and also to feel inspired and empowered by the stories you hear.

00:00:27:01 – 00:00:48:00

Hey everyone, Nikki Closser here, and this week your clubhouse hosts Ashleigh and Kevin interviewed Jonny Edward.

00:00:33:13 – 00:00:45:19

They chatted all about finding your artistic expression and style, and also about how to balance the time you need to create art with the things that come along with running a business. OK, let’s get started with Ashleigh, Kevin and Jonny.

00:00:46:17 – 00:01:18:00

Welcome everyone to the Portrait System podcast Clubhouse Edition. My name is Kevin Conde, and I’m here with my co-host Ashleigh Taylor. If you are not familiar with the Portrait System, we are a portrait photography podcast that is powered by Sue Bryce Education. Nikki Closser hosts our Monday episodes, and Ashleigh and I co-hosted our Clubhouse Edition, which is live here on Clubhouse app every Friday at Noon Pacific and in our episodes are released on Thursdays. You can tune in on your favorite podcast app by searching for the portrait system. Ashleigh, how are you doing?

00:01:18:17 – 00:01:28:02

I’m great, Kevin, and I’m so excited to be back here co-hosting with you again today and to introduce our very special guest, Jonny Edward. Welcome, Jonny.

00:01:28:06 – 00:01:31:18

Thank you so much. I’m elated and grateful to be here.

00:01:31:25 – 00:01:34:06

Yay, we’re happy to have you.

00:01:34:16 – 00:01:42:22

Welcome to the podcast, Jonny. And first, let me reiterate just how happy I am to be able to talk to you.

00:01:43:06 – 00:01:57:24

It is. It is always a joy talking to you, Kevin and you, Ashleigh and this community. So, no, I’m so excited like I. I just love being able to have chats like this and be kind of open and forthright, and hopefully everyone walks away feeling a little bit empowered and inspired.

00:01:58:24 – 00:02:16:22

That’s my favorite thing about you Jonny. So. Last year, I had the honor and pleasure of meeting you at last year’s WPPI, where it was basically like, Wait a minute, I know this. This person it’s in now, pretty much following everything you do, everything you put out, as well as, you know, having the pleasure of calling you a friend.

00:02:18:11 – 00:02:43:22

Let’s see. It’s still very early in the year, and people are working their way through fleshing out their portrait business and seeing what works, what doesn’t. With the focus on creating pricing lists, email responses, et cetera, et cetera, the creation of one’s own artistic style pretty much gets left by the wayside. And that’s why you’re here to help kind of clear things up for some people.

00:02:44:09 – 00:03:18:12

No, I was just going to say, Yeah, I think, you know, I’ve been talking to a lot of my friends and colleagues, both photographers and other artists. And obviously, we in the whole world have struggled immensely during this pandemic. Our businesses, what we do, how we do it, there’s been a cataclysmic shift and so I think sort of resurfacing here. There’s been a really huge focus on, OK, how do I get my business back in order? How do I get these numbers in order? How do I make my accountant happy? How do I price things accordingly? And obviously we have to have the nuts and bolts of all of that in place and well polished and tuned to run our portrait business as our studios in whatever else we have going on.

00:03:18:14 – 00:03:54:14

But in the process of that, like you just said, it’s all too easy to forget that at our core, we are artists and we are creators. And so that’s why I’m so excited to talk about this today, because I really want to encourage all of you who are listening to say, make sure you’re still creating time for art and creating time to create for yourself. So you’re not losing that connection and that passion and that fire. Because if you leave that by the wayside, it’s really easy to sort of get disenfranchised with with your business and with yourself. And the more you connect with your art in yourself as an artist, the more that you bring to the table for your clients, the more that you can charge, the more confident you are.

00:03:54:16 – 00:04:02:14

So this is sort of just like a reciprocal process where when you fan the flames of your art, it just it. It levels up everything else around it as well.

00:04:03:13 – 00:04:29:06

Jonny, based on that, would you say that there is like a tension that you feel between the artist side of yourself and the business owner side of yourself? Or do you identify with one more than the other? Because Kevin and I have had this conversation before where sometimes like I tell Kevin, like I see myself more as a technician sometimes than an artiste, so

00:04:30:21 – 00:04:54:21

I feel like I have great skill. I deliver a great, consistent product to my clients when my clients come to me. They know what they’re getting, but. Do I feel it’s. Art always no, but I feel like I’m a great business owner, so I was just wondering if you can maybe speak to how you think about those things?

00:04:54:27 – 00:05:25:16

Yeah, yeah, of course. Well, I think I think there’s tension for all of us. I’ve never met someone who who felt like they had both of those sides of themselves in line. So if you’re listening right now and you’re like, I’m more one than the other, that’s perfectly normal. I don’t think anyone’s walking that straight line. It’s interesting because before getting into photography, like I worked at an executive level in the digital marketing sector, I’ve been a consultant and things like that. So I have I have a ton of business experience. So in life, I can I can walk into someone else’s business, sort of deconstruct it and help rebuild it.

00:05:25:21 – 00:05:58:24

And I enjoy that a lot. However, in this realm in photography, I would definitely consider myself more of an artist than a businessperson. And over the last year, that’s been my big focus is trying to round round out the business side of things. So getting my pricing into order and getting contracts and to order and all of these things where if I was running one of your businesses, this would have been done forever ago. But for me, I’m so artistically inclined as a photographer that it can be hard for me to sort of delve into the business side of things and finding that balance is is really, really, really challenging.

00:05:58:26 – 00:06:15:20

So I can’t say that I’ve found it. But this year, especially leading into the new year, I feel like I’m probably the most balanced that I’ve been. So it’s nice to be creating work that I feel connected to and proud of and really doing that for my clients as well. All the while looking at my bank account and giving a thumbs up, going, OK, this is good too.

00:06:16:15 – 00:06:52:12

Yeah, I’m glad you brought that up because it’s definitely something that has been a personal struggle of mine and something that this year I’m trying to lean into more of my artistic side because I think for me, when I got into wedding photography at the very beginning part of my photography career, I was coming from being a film while an aspiring filmmaker working in the film industry. I really thought of myself as a storyteller, an artist, and I. What I hated was the actual business side of the film industry, and that’s why I left because I was like, Oh, I could be a wedding photographer.

00:06:52:14 – 00:07:13:24

Make this art for people, for their wedding day. And then along the lines, I realized, No, I need to run a business. And I feel like in a way, I lost some of myself. You know what I mean? Like some of what makes? Me, me as a storyteller, and I started thinking about more what would sell to clients.

00:07:13:26 – 00:07:46:01

Well, I think there’s an element of that too, and they’re sort of like the societal expectations on us. You know, like ever since we are growing up, there’s this idea of like the starving artist and the artist struggles. And, you know, if you’re making money, you’re selling out as an artist. So I think there’s the internal things that we deal with on a very human level. But there’s also this overriding sort of societal structure that says, Hey, you can’t be an artist and be successful like there’s something wrong. So you lead a comfortable life financially and also be an artist creating art. So it’s a really odd thing in this, especially in this part of the world.

00:07:46:03 – 00:07:50:20

I think that makes it challenging to sort of navigate through those waters.

00:07:51:12 – 00:08:15:03

So, yeah, for sure. And I think for me too another thing that’s been kind of like an interesting journey is when I do try to dip my toe into like artistic expression and then I submit to a competition or something. And maybe it doesn’t score the way I think it will or is high. Then I question, why am I even an artist at all? Or should I just stick to what sells? You know what I mean?

00:08:15:07 – 00:08:51:12

And I think that’s a huge point. And for me, one of the big things that I’ve been trying to do recently is to create art that doesn’t go anywhere. I don’t put it on social media. I don’t I don’t send it to people. I don’t try and publish it as editorials in magazines. I create solely for myself without any expectation or without any end point. And I think that’s really important because you are doing something like creating an image for a competition. Or, let’s say, with WPPI coming up for the print competition or obviously, the Portrait Masters Awards. It’s great in that you get creative, but you’re still doing it with this end point in mind and you’re creating relative to that competition.

00:08:52:01 – 00:09:30:05

So you’re looking at things and you’re creating specifically with that intent, and I think that’s very, very limiting. So that’s another thing I wanted to just briefly chat about today was just this idea of, you know, just just create without any intent, get weird and get strange and try new things. And no one has to see it. If it’s if you think it’s horrible, just delete your card at the end of the session. Like, I think it’s really easy to fall into the trap of everything being so pragmatic in us, trying to slot everything we create sort of strategically to move ourselves forward on some level, and we have to let all of that go and just kind of embrace the process now and again so that we can feel like true artists again.

00:09:30:15 – 00:09:56:05

Yeah. Reminds me of like Picasso talking about how like children are the only true artist. I believe it’s Picasso who said that, and I think about that because kids have like zero agenda like my son, like he just like, makes just the craziest stuff. And he’s like, Isn’t this brilliant? And you’re just like, OK, yeah, I guess it is like, but it’s just like, so pure, you know, there’s nothing like no expectation on it,

00:09:56:26 – 00:10:51:21

and it’s in once again, that’s easier said than done. But but we do. We have to step away from all of that and the comparison thing. And, you know, obviously we’re on the equivalent of a social media app here. But I just posted a new set to Instagram today, and it’s funny. Like as far as I’ve come, as a professional, as an artist, I still allow metric sometimes to drive how I feel about my art. So I’ll post something to Instagram, and I know basically what the post is going to do based on the interactions over the first 20 minutes and even over this past month or at the end of last year, some things have underperformed. Who knows why it could be an algorithm wrong post time or just? It didn’t resonate with the people who follow me, but I’m like, Should I take this down? Was that really good? So even as far as I’ve come, it’s so easy to fall into that trap of like deconstructing our work and allowing what we perceive to be the judgments of thoughts of others or communities or competitions to dictate how we feel about what it is we make, which is crazy.

00:10:52:13 – 00:10:53:00

Yeah.

00:10:53:12 – 00:11:07:09

Do you believe that by creating art that you don’t show anyone basically throwing it away if you don’t like it and putting out something different to the social media world to judge,

00:11:09:00 – 00:11:29:07

I’m going to guess that a lot of the things that potentially you post up, like your self-portraits aren’t paid, I would assume. Exactly. So would you consider it inauthentic to yourself then to be putting out that type of work that you aren’t, you know, based off of what you think would be likes and, you know, comments? Not, not

00:11:29:09 – 00:12:04:25

necessarily. You know, I think I think that can become a toxic mindset really quickly too, you know, if I if I only posted the things that really spoke to my soul, I probably wouldn’t post very much. And you know, it’s not that the work, like a lot of the work that I share, I love the connections that I had with people. But if I’m referring to myself purely as an artist, it may not have a surrealistic quality that I find very driving or things like that. So I don’t think there’s anything wrong with playing that game and going, Oh, I’m going to post something because this is generally trending or, Oh, I’m going to try and follow this or that. I think that we all have to sort of take that into account relative to the strategy for ourselves as artists and entrepreneurs.

00:12:05:07 – 00:12:30:03

But I do think that that becomes negative when all the. You create is dictated by those elements when all that you create is for social media, when all that you create is trying to get the next client like we have to do those sort of business oriented strategic things. But but conversely, we also have to break away from that and create outside or away from those kind of like containers and constraints on our process.

00:12:30:17 – 00:12:54:26

Let’s talk about time for a second because like what you just said, the first, like, probably limiting belief that came up for me was, I’m a mom I don’t like. I barely have time till I get all my stuff done for my business, like I don’t have time to be a true artist. Well. I know that that’s like so such like, you know, B.S., I’m going to not curse.

00:12:57:13 – 00:13:06:16

I’m, you know, but it’s it’s yeah, it’s just like an immediate thought that popped up for me. Like, what about the busy moms out? There are the people with, you know, whatever’s going on in there?

00:13:06:18 – 00:13:37:22

Well, I mean, first of all, anyone who’s a parent at any time, but especially in this world, like my my literal hat off to you right now, I only parent cats. And that’s enough for me. so so I can’t even imagine. But I will kind of reference it when I first got out of college, when I was much, much younger. We won’t go into that. But when I first got out of college, I actually I ran a gym and I was. I worked with a lot of athletes, but I also worked with sort of more quote unquote everyday individuals who just wanted to get into better shape or get healthier. And one of the biggest qualms always was, Well, I don’t have time to work out.

00:13:37:24 – 00:14:26:14

I don’t have time to prepare my food, I don’t have time to do this and to do that. And what I would encourage anyone to do, who actually has that out there is literally for two or three days log what you do almost every minute of the day. And I mean log your screen time, like a lot of people I’ve talked to, were like, Oh, I don’t have time to do personal work like they spend an hour and a half on social media during a day and any given day. Yeah. And so it’s like, think about how if you took one day a week, just one day or one day every two weeks and you allocated that hour and a half to just experimenting creatively without expectation, what that would do for you getting away from the comparison, getting away from all the sort of toxicity and negativity that can come from social media and focus just on yourself, like set that time aside for yourself, that’s like the artist date with you because you are worth it to carve out that time for you and your creative process.

00:14:26:16 – 00:14:44:27

Just making that time alone is such a validation for self and especially our artistic selves that I think as soon as you do it a couple of times you’re like, OK, like, this is my jam, I’m on this now. I’m addicted, I’m in it, but you have to get over that initial hump and all of the fear and anxiety and apprehension that naturally comes along with that.

00:14:45:14 – 00:14:56:02

Yeah, for sure. I think it is also, like you said of fear anxiety thing, because it’s it also is this thing where it’s like, what if I don’t live up to my own expectations of myself?

00:14:57:15 – 00:15:27:17

And that’s that’s hard. And I think it’s it’s something that we just have to tackle and it’s bound to happen. You know, anyone who says, Oh, you’re not going to fail yourself or you’re not going to do this, you’re not going to do that. It’s something that we just have to accept as part of the process. You know, my whole kind of mantra for all of this recently has been failing forward, and each day I struggle to fail forward. And that means that I’m trying new things. That means that I’m pushing myself. That means that I’m stepping outside of my comfort zone, so I no longer associate the word fail with something negative or a shortcoming or a less than mindset.

00:15:27:25 – 00:15:38:15

I see failing is proof manifest that I am pushing myself creatively, professionally, personally, and so rather than it being negative, it’s a validation for me that I’m moving in the right direction.

00:15:38:28 – 00:15:43:06

I love that. That’s a good mindset shift for people, including myself.

00:15:43:19 – 00:15:58:14

And it’s easier said than done. It’s, you know, it’s one of those things where you you fake it till you make it. You start off with just saying it and then you slowly start to internalize that and then you begin to live it. But that takes time and each person. That timeline is different for it because obviously we’re all unique.

00:15:59:03 – 00:16:26:16

So I wanted to ask you going, so you, you are, you know, recreating your work, making it, improving it, but you’ve been doing this for a while. How would you recommend for someone who literally maybe just picked up a camera recently or within the past year? How do they begin the process of figuring out what direction their art needs to go to be their authentic self?

00:16:26:25 – 00:16:59:02

I think it can start with very, very small changes. I’m all about starting at the smallest level and then allowing that to sort of gain momentum. So if someone’s just starting out in, let’s say, they’ve only shot with natural light, I would encourage that person to get access to a speed light or a constant light or use house lighting to try and shoot. You know, if you’re out there and you only shoot with an 85 millimeter lens, try shooting with a 35 millimeter lens or try shooting with a one thirty five, you know, if you never convert your photos into black and white. Try doing that. So anything just to break outside of that norm.

00:16:59:22 – 00:17:32:15

And I think it’s it’s really easy, especially when you’re first starting out to get very formulaic. You know, like I learned a ton of lighting from from Felix’s the lighting series. And I tell Felix this a lot like literally, I credit that with me getting into the studio and feeling comfortable, but shortly after watching that, I had to check myself because I realized I was going into every single situation using signature light. I was putting the lights in the same places. I was using the modifiers, and that was good for paid work. If someone asked me to do that because I knew I could produce that for them, but I was even using that lighting setup in my personal work because it was comfortable.

00:17:32:24 – 00:18:06:09

So I started by just saying, Hey, these are two soft lights. I’m going to use a beauty dish or just a standard reflector as my main light and integrating harder light with softer light. And that was sort of an entry point. And then from there, that little push got me into using different modifiers and different configurations and one light or seven lights or whatever. But we just have to kind of look at what we’re doing repetitively and do anything different from that. And I think just stepping outside of sort of that safety net immediately starts to create sort of a spark that ignites a fire that is creative exploration.

00:18:06:22 – 00:18:29:03

Would you say then? See, my my question is with that though is you said, you went with the signature light and that’s what you’re shooting even in your own personal work. Wouldn’t that be considered your quote unquote style? Or is it because you’ve done a lack of exploring in the other realms of lighting that you just are inexperienced and that may not be your style?

00:18:29:07 – 00:19:01:03

The second part, I think you hit the nail on the head with that and you stated it perfectly. You know, going back to Picasso, if you look at the evolution of Picasso’s work, it got very complex and then it was reduced back to very rudimentary types of shapes and forms. And that was Picasso’s whole thing to say. Like, I had to explore all of this and learn it and get good at it to realize what it is I love and what actually represents my voice. You know, when you’re learning another language, if you only know one phrase, you’re going to repeat that phrase and it’s going to be comfortable and you’re good at it, but you’re only repeating that phrase because you don’t know how to say anything else.

00:19:01:20 – 00:19:19:03

So I think in that case, yes, it could be identified as your style and people may come to you for that. But I don’t think it’s authentically your style because you’re not using that specifically because that’s what represents you or that’s what you want to say. You’re using that because that’s the only thing you know how to say visually in terms of lighting.

00:19:19:25 – 00:19:45:03

Do you think that your style is defined by one particular type of lighting? Or is it more like a style even bigger than the type of lighting that you do? Oh yeah. You’ve described yourself as surreal, which I think is why I identify with your work. So much like all, my favorite artists are surrealist, basically, except I’m not. For whatever reason in my own work. And yeah,

00:19:45:11 – 00:20:16:14

and I think, you know, kind of going back to it like you referred to yourself earlier leaning toward being more of a technician than an artist. And I think, you know being kind of delving into the surrealist stuff. It’s about bringing your vision of something to life, you know, so it’s about adding an elements or not just recreating what it is that’s in front of you, but creating something else. And you really have to lean into your artistic side for that. And you have to believe that there is vision and value in what you’re imagining and what you are envisioning in your own head and art. And that’s that’s really challenging.

00:20:16:16 – 00:20:50:03

But for me, I like to say that my style is defined by a lack of style and that I really wouldn’t want someone to go, Oh, Jonny uses hard light or Jonny, use a soft light, or Jonny uses gels like it’s the right tool for the right job. And I always want to represent my concept or the individual I’m photographing in a way that feels authentic and true to them or to the idea. I think what probably binds my work together is sort of this intangible element of connection. You know, beyond lighting, beyond sets, beyond canvas backdrops, beyond all of the stuff that you’ll see in a lot of my work.

00:20:50:15 – 00:21:23:23

First and foremost, my obsession is on connecting with the person who’s in front of my lens in on in on celebrating them and making them feel safe and seen and heard and respected and appreciated and loved. And so there’s this almost fourth dimension to my work if I were to wax about it romantically, or at least that’s what I strive for, where it’s individual focused and it’s journey focused and it’s human focused and everything is built around that. So that’s the core of my style, and I think that exists beyond any tangible aesthetic element in a set or what have you.

00:21:23:27 – 00:21:47:28

Yeah, I love that because I mean, for me, I feel like I can really identify your pictures if I see them like floating in the the social, the social media realms. Yeah, exactly. Like, I’ll be like, Oh, I know the funniest photo, you know? But like you said, there is not they’re not always the same lighting or but there’s something intangible about it that’s very distinctly your point of view.

00:21:48:00 – 00:22:22:05

And there is there is. Obviously, I have certain ways of like layering backdrops. I have certain angles like I think there’s probably even a visually a focal aspect to that. A lot of times I shoot with with a thirty five, it’s my favorite focal length. So just shooting with what would be considered versus traditional portraiture stuff like a fifty or eighty five or one thirty five. There’s there’s a wider, more cinematic quality to my. Work just because of the angle of that lens, so it’s even little things like that that I think we start, we can start to identify our own work or the work of others. And you know, for the longest time, I really loved that, but I was in all of these groups on Facebook, and people would be like, Oh, why do you shoot with a thirty five? That’s stupid.

00:22:22:07 – 00:23:01:20

You’re stupid, you do stupid things, you know, like ridiculous, diminishing thing. And I took that to heart, so I got away from it and I came back to it. And I love the intimacy of that focal length. Number one, just the appearance of it. But number two, it forces me or not forces me, but sort of connects me to where I have to get close to my subjects. You know, if I’m using a 135 and I’m shooting a full body portrait, I’m like a block away. Yeah, and what the thirty five? It brings me in proximity and I like I like that spatial relationship. It’s probably not the best during the pandemic, but you know, viruses aside, I really want to be close to the people that I photograph, and I feel that there’s something special about us being close to one another.

00:23:01:27 – 00:23:12:27

You know, tangibly, that that’s just different if you’re using a longer focal length. If I’m doing headshots and stuff, that’s different. But I just I always want to try and foster and nurture that, that connection and proximity.

00:23:13:01 – 00:23:48:00

Yeah, I love that. I love that you’ve like, noticed and identified that about your own style. And I just I’m wondering like because you posted maybe a few days ago or a week ago about some old photos that you had done that you discovered they were outside like. Yeah. And I was wondering if you could tell us a little bit more about that evolution. Those photos went, how long ago were they taken and how you feel like that kind of when you look back on that journey? What that says about all your growth?

00:23:48:07 – 00:24:23:11

So, you know, I want to say that’s that set was about six years ago, and it was with someone who I had not like Instagram. I actually took those they were taken to the botanic gardens. The model that I was working with was a trooper. It was cold and they were wearing this beautiful dress anyway. It was ridiculous. But yeah, it was interesting looking back on that because of course, the first thing that I saw from a technical standpoint was like, Oh, poor, poor lighting. Oh, poor this, poor that. But then I smiled because I still saw that eye contact with me, and I actually remember that session, and we spent most of the time just exploring and laughing and being present in like this beautiful space together.

00:24:23:22 – 00:24:57:11

And so that I kind of drew me back to it, but that’s when I first started photographing people. So I got into photography sort of as an art therapy for myself just because I was working a job I loathed and I didn’t feel like I was connected to me. And so I started shooting what I knew, which at the time was street photography and landscape. A lot of flowers like an ungodly amount of flowers. I can’t even go there, but then someone just sort of suggested I try portraits and I went out for cocktails with someone and just photograph them while we were out having a drink. And I was like, Wow, this is really amazing because we had this really wonderful conversation.

00:24:57:13 – 00:25:27:22

And then when there were pauses in the conversation, I would click a portrait. And so then I was able to kind of carry that experience and that connection forward with me. And that kind of evolved into fashion because for those of you who don’t know me, I really love clothes and fashion and that type of thing. And so I started shooting that and then it snowballed. But it was beautiful to reflect back on that work because despite all of the aesthetic differences and the lack of technical proficiency and stuff, I still saw that core of my work, which was the person, the individual, the human, their story, their being.

00:25:28:13 – 00:26:00:25

And it made me smile. And so even a few years ago, I look back on old work and I’d be like, Oh, I don’t want anyone to see this. It’s it’s horrible. And this and that. Now I look at that work and I’m like, Oh, I want to share this, know I want to show people how much I’ve grown, and I want to encourage other people wherever they’re at in their journey to say, like, if you’re looking at your work right now and you’re being dismissive and you’re like, it’s not this person’s work or that person’s work, like keep going, don’t stop, keep creating and keep trying. Keep failing forward because you’ll get there. And then once you’re there a year later from that, you’re going to look back on it and be like, Wow, that was less than and that’s the whole point.

00:26:00:27 – 00:26:07:01

Like, if you can look back on your work and see how you’ve changed, it means that you’ve grown and that’s worth celebrating.

00:26:07:13 – 00:26:07:28

Yeah.

00:26:08:18 – 00:26:38:03

Jonny, I wanted to ask you about you. You’ve brought up the connection that you have with people and how that helped with your portraits and, you know, making your art. How do you create that space and is it something that is only certain people capable of it? Is it something innate within having that skill? Can they build that skill to create a safe space for, you know, someone in front of it from in front of their lens?

00:26:38:11 – 00:27:09:12

Yeah. You know, it’s a I appreciate you taking the time, and it’s an odd topic to talk about because it’s so intangible, right? You know, it’s not like lighting or camera settings. It’s something that that’s sort of hard to pinpoint. Put your finger on. I do think that certain people have an easier time with it. I do think it’s like we all know people in our lives who were like, Oh, they’re so charismatic and they have an easygoing way about them. People gravitate toward them. So I do think there is an innate sense to that where for some people, it’s easier. I also do firmly believe, though, that that you can build on that skill and anyone can build into that.

00:27:09:27 – 00:27:44:08

And and for me, what it really comes down to is I’m genuinely interested in the people who walk into my studio like I want to know about them. I want to know their backgrounds, their histories, their trials, their failures, their achievements. Like, I want to know them as a human being. So when they come in, I’m talking to them. And I think creating that dialogue and communication is key, and we’ve all had that happen in our lives where someone’s like, Hey, Ashleigh, how’s it going? And you can just feel that you’re like, the person doesn’t care how it’s going because it’s like. And you go, Oh, you know, I just I got hit by a car and they’re like, Oh, you know, I had the greatest drink at Starbucks today.

00:27:44:21 – 00:28:18:12

And they just they run round shot over you. But when someone actually goes, Hey, Ashleigh, like, how are you? And you’re like, whatever you say and there there is eye contact and they’re listening and they’re engaged, you suddenly get a chance to open up because you know that they genuinely care about what it is you’re saying. So I think that’s what I always lead with, and it’s not even intentional. But when someone comes in and I start that dialogue and start communicating with them, they have one hundred percent of my intention because that’s where I want to be with them in that moment. And I think even starting with that, that that’s that’s the greatest foundation of all.

00:28:18:14 – 00:28:52:20

And, you know, even if you’re an introvert, let the other person talk. This isn’t something where you have to sit there and tell them your life story just with basic prompts. Even if you have to do it off of, you know, the equivalent of a script, just get to know them and allow them the space to open up. And as they do that, they’re going to settle into wherever they’re at and they’re going to start to show their true colors. And then if you’re sort of allowing them that space and if you’re recognizing them in that space like that, that that connection just starts to build and it’s really beautiful and powerful and you’ll feel it and they’ll feel it, and it becomes more natural to get to that space over time.

00:28:52:22 – 00:29:00:10

But like all things, it just takes conscious effort and practice. And then soon enough, practice becomes habit and then you don’t even have to think about it.

00:29:00:25 – 00:29:05:15

Yeah, I think that’s amazing advice for people who struggle with connecting with their clients.

00:29:06:14 – 00:29:38:06

It’s and it’s interesting. So over the past month and a half or so, I’ve started renting out my studio on a limited basis, which has been amazing. You know, at first I was like, I’m never going to allow anyone into my studio. It’s my sanctuary. And then in the summer, I had this downtime. A bunch of productions got canceled for obvious reasons, and my studio was just sitting here and I felt bad. It’s this space that I put so much love and time into curating, and I knew it was empty. And I’m like, Well, I want other photographers to do this. And so I started renting it out. I just included myself as an assistant at no additional cost. And in part, I did that for photographers because I wanted to be able to help them.

00:29:38:08 – 00:30:10:23

But I did it for me because it got me into the studio and it got me seeing what people are doing, how they’re doing it, where they’re struggling. And it’s interesting because some photographers will come in and they’re really amazing at what they do technically, but they don’t talk to their clients. You know, there’s really no there’s no posing dialogue, there’s no conversation. They’re just kind of silent behind the camera. And then there’s people who come in who literally have no technical skill but communicate and invariably the people who walk out, even if their photos are like less than an iPhone photo. No one is coming to my studio and done anything like this, they’ve all been amazing.

00:30:10:25 – 00:30:44:11

If you’re listening out there. But but even if the photos are really just just not much to look at, like the people love the photos because of the experience they had. So I think it’s also very easy for all of us to be like, Oh, I need to be a master of lighting, oh, I need to be a master of retouching or I need to be a master of posing. But really, aside from all of that, what we have to start to think about is being a master of communication and being a master of connection, because if that’s in place, even if the photos are less, then guess what? Your client’s going to want those photos because the photos causing them to reflect on that experience.

00:30:44:23 – 00:31:01:12

And even if those photos are amazing, if they had a lackluster experience, they’re going to see that when they look at the photos in your sales aren’t going to be great. That’s my experience with it. So it comes back to those intangibles, the soft skills and what we’re what we’re creating experientially for our clients versus what we’re creating tangibly for them.

00:31:01:24 – 00:31:36:00

Yes. Like when I first met Sue Bryce, it was a workshop in person, 10 people. I still can’t believe that that changed my life, but I was so lucky to be there with, like, just sue as the teacher. But one thing that she did, which, by the way, is nerve wracking as hell to have Sue Bryce right behind you when you’re shooting, I was constantly being like, I thought it was like, pretty good talking to, you know, my clients that she’s like, Talk more, save more. And like she’s like in your ear and you’re like, Oh so nervouse.

00:31:36:02 – 00:31:39:13

Yeah, like basically trying not to poop your pants off.

00:31:41:02 – 00:31:56:12

Well, it was just like, so like what you’re saying is like that was like the foundation, like, yeah, it was like talk, do not do not let a minute go by where you are quiet while you’re finding a focal point or whatever, like reassure them make them feel great in front of the camera.

00:31:56:14 – 00:32:28:24

And I, you know, and I would really encourage all of you out there to, especially if you’re just getting into, let’s say, studio lighting. It’s it’s nerve wracking to have a client in front of you and to have a lighting set up. You don’t have dialed in and you’re looking at your camera and you’re going, Oh crap, like, why is there a black line in here? Why isn’t this light fluttering? Why is this happening? But your client doesn’t know that you’re struggling with your lighting, so they think you’re looking at the back of the camera going, Wow, this person is terrible looking. Wow. I wish I didn’t have to photograph this person. Wow, this sucks. So what I always do even now is whenever I’m having technical issues, I narrate it.

00:32:29:03 – 00:32:41:11

I’ll just look at the back of my camera and I’ll look up and I’ll be like, Well, you know, you can’t get it right every time. Like, You look amazing. You’re so fantastic. I’m trying to figure out my lighting. You’d think that as a professional. I could do this, but clearly I can’t do it and I’m a self-deprecating person.

00:32:41:20 – 00:32:43:22

That’s so interesting, but it’s simple.

00:32:43:24 – 00:33:14:28

It’s what I love about it is it breaks down the hierarchy to because someone walks into my studio and especially if they know me in this area, there’s like this expectation. Oh, it’s Jonny. And oh, I met his atelier in Oh this and oh that. And then for me to poke fun at myself and laugh at myself, it’s like, Oh, like, this isn’t a person looking down on me and judging me. We’re just two human beings coexisting in this space together. And then the attention starts to ease. So I love when I make mistakes and sessions, and I say that out loud. And for me, it’s always a unifying event where I can feel some tension and anxiety just fade away.

00:33:15:03 – 00:33:23:17

And suddenly we’re we’re just there as friends instead of like a person being photographed by a photographer, which can create a lot of division.

00:33:24:03 – 00:33:55:24

Yeah. And it’s funny what you say to you because like, I’m thinking back to one of my very, very first boudoir shoots, which was when I was still in L.A., still brand new charge, a good two hundred and fifty dollars for all the pictures and the client booked the hotel room, it was so small and it had no natural. Of course, of course. And I had a speed like an on camera speed light. And I knew like, this is not a good situation that we have going on here.

00:33:57:10 – 00:34:26:06

And I was just like, OK, keep calm, bounce the light off the white walls and the ceiling, you know, and just connect with her again for an amazing time, like, make her feel special. And that’s what I did. And she loved the pictures, obviously. Like I just said, I got paid two hundred and fifty dollars, so I can’t tell you all I had like an amazing sale from it. But what I got was a lot of referrals from her, like a great review and she still reaches out to me, like to this day to say how much she loved it.

00:34:26:18 – 00:34:44:08

So it’s just, I think it’s just, like, really funny how you sometimes can get away with delivering just an amazing experience and that that can be all someone is looking for sometimes. I mean, of course, they want great photos, but but you can be a little easier on yourself if you can connect with your clients. Well, yeah,

00:34:44:10 – 00:35:13:21

and it’s like most most clients aren’t coming to you to create like da Vinci or Caravaggio level masterpiece. You know, they want photos of them that represent them, that that are beautiful. And for me, I always know I did what I was supposed to do. It’s one thing for someone to go, Oh, you made me look beautiful. It’s another thing when someone tells me you made me feel beautiful, and there’s a huge difference in that. And that’s been my goal. You know, I just worked with an amazing client who’s actually a photographer in the community, and I created a set of maternity portraits with and for

00:35:14:03 – 00:35:17:18

those ones you posted today, yeah, they were epic.

00:35:17:23 – 00:35:46:07

Yeah. And it’s like, I love, I love this human being, the individual I photograph. But we sort of had a little dialogue after and it was you have no idea how important that was to me. You made me feel x y z. And for that, like, I love the photos, but the photos can whatever fall to the wayside. The fact that I was able to do that, that we came together and I made her feel that way. That means I is a photographer, as a creator, as an artist. I fulfilled my purpose in that session as I’ve as I’ve intended for myself.

00:35:46:27 – 00:36:01:25

I was going to say it was one of the kind of goes along with one of the quotes that gets constantly brought up in our community, which is, you know, Maya Angelou saying people will not remember what you say. They won’t remember what you did, but they will remember how you made them feel.

00:36:01:27 – 00:36:32:12

Absolutely one, 110 percent. And that’s in my opinion. That’s that’s our job. That’s our job as portrait photographers. It’s to make people feel and it’s to make the people we photograph feel. And then when we go to share our work on a platform like Instagram, it’s to make the people who see our work feel, you know, going back to the whole talk about artistry like I was so focused for a long period of time on technical mastery. And I was all lighting, lighting, lighting, lighting, lighting. And I mean, I love lighting. I’m a nerd. I love the physics of light. Like, I can talk about it all day.

00:36:32:14 – 00:37:05:24

It’s my jam. But I people started describing my work is clean. So this happened where everyone’s like, Oh dude, your work so clean, so clean, so clean, so clean. And I was like, Oh crap, like, I don’t want my work to be known as clean, like, Oh, Jonny has the clean portraits. Like, that’s not a descriptor I want for my work. That’s what I want someone to say about, like my house. Like, Do you have a clean house? Not like you have clean art? So I realized that what was happening was I was so focused on lighting that I was losing touch of the person whom I was lighting.

00:37:06:06 – 00:37:42:28

So I used that as a cue to come back to it, and I purposely started shooting natural light and constant light again and brought it back. And then people were like, Oh, I don’t know why I just feel this. This work brought me to tears and I’m like, OK, I’m back to my core. So I think that’s necessary to just to know there’s going to be a give and take, like if you’re focused on your lighting right now, because that’s your goal. That’s awesome. Know that because you’re focused on your interactions, going to probably be a less a little less than when you go to bring your interaction up. Your focus on the technical elements is going to be less then. And so I think we sort of have these little like microcosmic like capsule subjects that we have to focus on and we get to where we want to be and then we switch to the next thing.

00:37:43:09 – 00:37:53:02

But when your energy’s focused on something, necessarily other things are going to kind of like suffer, and that’s just the physics of allocation of like resource. And that’s OK, and that’s normal and natural.

00:37:53:14 – 00:38:07:22

So we’ve talked about how you’re capable of creating this environment for people. Has there been moments where you haven’t been able to connect with someone, you haven’t been able to get them out of their shell? And if so, how do you deal with that?

00:38:07:28 – 00:38:37:28

Absolutely. And I’m happy to say that it doesn’t happen nearly as frequently as before, but there is just that. There sometimes isn’t simpatico with the person. I am sometimes in a bad mood, like as much as I like to try and maintain a certain semblance of integrity in my professional life. Sometimes things are going on in your personal life that just bleed over into what you’re doing as an artist and a portrait photographer, and this and that. And so I had a session. It was probably I must’ve been like three or four, and I was a little bit longer than that. It was last year. We’ll just say that anyway, individual came in.

00:38:38:28 – 00:39:15:29

I thought it went great. I was pretty happy with it. They were a little bit challenging. As a client, I deliver them the images. They hated everything they hated, like literally use the word hate and they’re like, I hate this, this isn’t what I asked for. You did this, you did that. And all the while I was showing them photos and stuff, and I sort of took responsibility for it because I was asking them and I’m like, Well, they said, they said they liked it when I showed it to him and I’m like, Yeah, but like, that’s that’s a pretty pressure laden situation. You know, if you’re if you’re the photographer and you show someone something and you’re like, Hey, how do you like it? Do you like it? Like, it takes a really strong person and confident person who’s like, bolstered in that situation to be like, No, I don’t like it.

00:39:16:08 – 00:39:46:28

Like, people are almost always going to say yes. So I step back, and I should have felt the energy out on it. And I was like, You know what? We talked about doing this. You needed this from me. Obviously, I did not produce it. How can how can we make this right? What are we going to do? And then it became, well, I really didn’t want to shoot in the studio to begin with, and I should have been more communicative about that. So really, I dropped the ball in the consultation and then I dropped the ball on the shoot because I wasn’t reading the signs in my mind was elsewhere with what was going on in my life, so I wasn’t giving this individual the same type of attention that I give my other clients.

00:39:47:06 – 00:40:22:06

So I just took that one on the chin, so to speak. And you know, they travel to New York a lot. But when they’re back in the spring, we’re going to do this whole shoot at a design center and I have everything planned out for them. But I was just like, Listen, you know, this isn’t this isn’t what you wanted. I’m going to make this right for you. Whatever that takes money is not a concern for me. Time isn’t a concern for me. You getting a collection of images you feel great about. That’s the only thing that’s a concern to me. And by taking that responsibility and owning it and then figuring out a path forward, not only is this person now happy, but I’ve already received additional referrals, even though we haven’t reshot their project just for being able to do that.

00:40:22:08 – 00:40:29:20

So, you know, when when it happens, you call it out, you see it, you own it, and then you do your best to move forward. That’s my approach, at least,

00:40:30:02 – 00:41:10:14

and I really love that you brought this up because I don’t remember who said it to me. But a long time ago, I heard from some business guru somewhere that a mistake can actually be an amazing situation for you as a business owner to actually show how you right your wrongs. Because actually, it takes like a person of extreme integrity to not get defensive, to take responsibility, to go ahead and make it right. And so sometimes your f ups can be an amazing opportunity to step up to bat and show your clients how much you care that you wow them and they can actually make, like you said, get more referrals, make things better.

00:41:10:16 – 00:41:44:21

Obviously, our aim is not to like f up. Of course, I know. Take that the wrong way, but I think it’s such an important thing to remember that like humans are humans, we’re all going to make mistakes. We can be so hard on ourselves. But if you can take emotion and ego out of it and just be like, here’s what I could have done differently. How can we get to a place where we’re both happy in this situation, hopefully that other people, other person can like, meet you there and not, you know, be in anger mode either.

00:41:44:23 – 00:41:48:09

But then you can really come to some amazing resolutions.

00:41:48:11 – 00:42:23:24

Absolutely. And it is an inevitability. And it’s funny because it actually made me think, you know, recently when I shared some work, someone’s like, Oh, goodness gracious, I quit. Like, You can’t even take a bad photo. And I just started laughing hysterically, and I’m like, I take bad photos all day, every day. Like, I take photos that aren’t glorious all day, every day, you know? So it’s like the stuff that’s seen on the outside. It’s curated like my gallery is curated. All of us curate what we share. All of us curate our experiences, like if you’re in a coaching group like you’re going to jump on there and be like, Boom, I just hit 10k, but you’re probably not going to jump on there and be like, boom.

00:42:23:26 – 00:42:54:22

The client didn’t get charged this session fee, and they didn’t want one image because I bombed it. So like everything that we put out, there tends to be the best stuff. So yeah, you’re going to have clients. They’re challenging. Yeah, sometimes the shoot is going to go awry. Yeah, you’re going to create work that you look at and you’re like, What was I thinking once again? Like, That’s all part of the process. And I really one of my big goals this year is to to try and normalize that, to let people know that the struggle is normal and the challenge is normal and the self-doubt is normal. Like it’s not good to stay in those places and we have to learn how to move through them.

00:42:54:29 – 00:43:06:00

But if you’re experiencing them, it means that you’re on the right track, so don’t run from them. Do your best to embrace it because that means you’re you’re making steam and you’re moving toward your goals and dreams and aspirations.

00:43:06:18 – 00:43:37:00

Yeah, I think I think, like you said, that’s so important. I think it is important to feel like it’s OK to be vulnerable at times too as artists and just say, like, you know, maybe this wasn’t my best, but I gave it my all. Or, you know, yeah, I don’t know. It’s like I. I often sell my top package, but I, you know, the law of averages like Sue said, once, once or twice a year. Maybe I don’t like so anything but the lowest, the lowest minimum amount.

00:43:37:02 – 00:43:48:14

You know, I actually just happened to me. I told Kevin it was like two weeks ago I did a shoot. I thought I had a great connection with the client. I I thought I was killing it.

00:43:50:00 – 00:44:20:15

And when I showed it was like a teenage girl and her mom, the images, they were just like, No, no, no. And I was just like, What is this happening? And I even said, like, Dude, do you want me to re-shoot it on stuff? And they were like, No, we we do like some of them, like, we’re just going to take these few photos. And I was like, Oh, man, this is going to be like, you know, keeping it real. Like, I don’t, I really don’t know. I was like, You know, what could I have done better? But I don’t.

00:44:20:17 – 00:44:38:17

I didn’t really get a clear answer. I’m sure it’s really hard to say, you know, like you said, for them to be quite what it is. So I mean, they’re happy with the few they got. I feel kind of bad about it, but them’s the breaks like, that’s what happens. You know, out of that, has it happened to me for probably two years, which is

00:44:38:29 – 00:45:10:21

and I mean, that’s the crazy thing about it to write like we so like our ego internalizes the perception of failure so strongly. You could have every single one of your sessions 50 sessions at the highest package and then you get one that’s the lowest and you’re like, Oh, I have my business going to fail. Am I deserve or should I just quit? I’m not even like all of those things churn up from one out of 50. Like, that’s an insanely brilliant average, but it’s the same thing on the artistic side of things to like sort of circling back to that and piggybacking off what you were just saying.

00:45:10:23 – 00:45:44:03

Like, there’s a photographer. Probably my greatest title is a photographer, Paolo Reversi. Like, if you don’t know his work, he creates these beautiful, dreamy, surreal scenes, and he does so with light painting. Most of the time just with flashlights, shoots, large format film like masterful, literally a painter of light. I’ve been trying these techniques on and off for the past year, and sometimes I get it and it’s exquisite and I jump up and down. But there are days when I’ve been in the studio for eight hours and every single thing I’ve shot. I’ve been like, This is trash, I’m trash, I’m terrible, I’m selling this.

00:45:44:05 – 00:46:15:17

I’m going to be an accountant. I hate art, I hate everything, and I’m literally like just throwing a temper tantrum in my studio, going around, tossing fabric and, you know, laying around and stuff. So but but the thing is, is, you know, Paolo Reversi has been doing this season at 70 since he was 16. And I and then I asked myself, I’m like, So am I so egoic? Is to think I can produce work that’s taken this master 60 years to get to where he’s at after trying for a year or part of a year. And like, that’s the thing with the creative side of things too.

00:46:15:19 – 00:46:37:03

Like, there is going to be shortcomings like if you start doing hard light or beauty light, you’ve only shot soft organic light, like you’re not going to nail it the first time. And to think that you could is pretty egoic. So just like set your ego aside and say, Hey, I’m doing this because I want to learn and I want to experience and I want to try and yeah, I’m gonna mess it up, and if I don’t mess it up, I can’t get good at it, so once again it’s just a one to one.

00:46:37:23 – 00:47:13:09

Yeah. I was thinking too like, I’m not really. Kevin can attest I’m not a sports person. I don’t really know anything about sports, but I’m I’ve I’ve heard so often like, you know, sports players like the percentage that they get, like good plays or whatever you call it. I don’t know, guys scores points. The things the things that they do is, like, really, really rare, but lot or like Olympic, you know, people who make it to the Olympics like it’s so rare, but to get to that level is so hard and yet we get so hard on ourselves all the time.

00:47:13:11 – 00:47:45:18

And it’s it’s the 10000 hours to mastery thing. You know, I think the photo that you talked about earlier that I posted my old set that was six years ago or so, and that’s what I really started photographing people. And sometimes I don’t like sharing that because the people have been in the photography game for longer than me. They’re like, Oh, so you’ve got this far, your work is this good after x amount of time, but it’s really unfair to look at time and presume you know how much someone has put into something. You know, there’s people who have been working on hobbies for 30 years, and they’ve never really given it their all. There’s people who have been doing things for six months where they’ve been doing it 18 hours a day.

00:47:45:24 – 00:48:19:20

Like, who do you think is going to be further ahead in that scenario? So for me, I’m an obsessive person. It’s just my personality. So when I started photographing people and especially when I got into the studio, I was in a shared studio space, where I had unlimited hours, every single moment. I wasn’t working at my standard job, I was in that studio and I mean that unflinchingly, like I would be in there from midnight to four a.m., I would be in there between. I would pull people off the street who I just randomly met and say, Can I photograph you? Like, that’s what I did to accelerate my skill. It’s not like I had more vision or more talent than the another person in that studio.

00:48:19:26 – 00:48:33:12

It’s just I put in three thousand percent more time every single day, and thus like my skill built up significantly faster, not because of anything magical, but just because I was working harder and more consistently.

00:48:34:05 – 00:49:04:11

I think that is such a huge point that a lot of people within the community forgets and just doesn’t really, Oh, this person is so great. You know, their work so fantastic. Yes, they themselves aren’t taking the time to invest it, to create to to create a portfolio, to invest in the education, to the knowledge, to finally be able to produce something that is, you know, what they would consider fantastic work.

00:49:04:27 – 00:49:36:12

Well, and that’s and that that kind of comes back to it where people are like, Oh, I want to create more artistic work or I want to get inside. And the first question I ask is when was the last time you created art? When was the last time it wasn’t a client brief? When was the last time? But when was the last time you actually did something artistic? And a lot of times it’s like, I can’t remember when or it was three months ago or I’ve been wanting to, but there’s not enough time or I’ve been wanting to buy this light’s broke and I’ve been wanting to. But the dishwasher only runs if I stand next to it for the entire cycle, and so I have to be there. There are so many things because it’s the fear and it’s the anxiety.

00:49:36:19 – 00:50:06:23

And then we project that out and we come up with excuses. And this isn’t finger pointing. I do this all the time, too. I’ve been wanting to get back to painting for the past year. I was I drew and painted when I was younger. I’ve come up with every excuse in the book. I have my cat’s old is one of them and I’m like, Oh, the paint fumes are going to upset her and she’s going to die prematurely because I’m painting. And now it’s like literally these the stories that I’ve created in my head. And it’s because I’m scared, I’m scared, I’m going to paint and I’m not going to like it. I’m scared because I’m not as skilled as I am at photography.

00:50:06:29 – 00:50:24:09

I’m scared that I’m going to fail. I’m scared that it’s going to make me feel bad about myself. Those are all the reasons I’m not doing it. None of the excuses I’ve made are legitimate. I’ve just been creating a context to stay away from something that’s important to me specifically because it’s important to me, which is ridiculous. But it’s it’s commonplace.

00:50:24:17 – 00:51:12:20

And I think too sometimes it’s for people also knowing like, what is the thing that you’re after? Like what is important to you? Like, what if your time is precious? Like, where do you want to be putting your time? Like, is it that you want to take up this new hobby? Or is it that you want to like, go deeper with the thing you’re already doing? Because I think sometimes also like I have like, you know, that like squirrel shiny objects syndrome. Same. So sometimes I can see it. Like, sometimes I have to ask myself, like, is that me putting like a Band-Aid over not wanting to deal with the things that I really you should be focusing on? Because if I go over here and I start this new thing, then I can say that I’m being really dedicated, but I’m just essentially dedicating myself to this new thing to prevent me from spending time on that.

00:51:12:22 – 00:51:13:07

Yeah.

00:51:13:20 – 00:51:46:05

And I mean, we have a tendency to do that as people, too. Going back to when I was in personal training in the fitness world, it’s really what people often love to do is make things overly complicated because if they’re complicated, there’s an excuse to fail. Right? Like if you have to eat 17 times a day and each time you eat, it has to be two and a half peanuts and one ounce of chicken and exactly three ounces of kombucha. You’re like, I tried doing it for three days, but I mean, I have a life and a job and a partner. It’s impossible. Versus if you’re just like, Oh, here are three basic rules to follow and do that six days out of seven.

00:51:46:09 – 00:52:23:12

Now all the responsibility is on you. So it’s I think that we all have a tendency to overcomplicate things on the business side and on the art things. And we do that. Our ego does. That is a buffer because it’s like if it’s so complex, I didn’t fail. It was just too much, it was too much time, it was too much effort, I just couldn’t do this. I just couldn’t do that. So that’s why I go back to that idea of baby steps with whatever you’re doing, you know, just breaking out of a rut. However, you’re shooting right now, just do something differently. And I mean, it could literally mean standing on one leg like I do not care how different it is, and it could be the most basic thing, but just start there and let that build out and really beautiful things happen.

00:52:23:14 – 00:52:30:11

You know, it’s the old proverb. The journey of a thousand miles starts with one step and it’s cliche, but it’s so absolutely true.

00:52:31:05 – 00:53:03:01

Yeah. And I think you can sometimes get away with this with clients, too, if they really trust you like you can just at the end of their shoot, if they’re still time, like they still have the energy and everything you can try like a set up that may completely fail, but like you’re just doing it for creativity. Like, for example, I shot an 80 year old woman with like a bare bulb strobe the other day. And all of them, I don’t know, this is going to be a good year or not, but I was like, super stoked. I mean, I think I’m stoked on how the images turned out.

00:53:03:03 – 00:53:07:29

I’m a little afraid to say that now and have someone else, look at them and be like, No girl, you were off your

00:53:09:16 – 00:53:10:01

choice,

00:53:10:03 – 00:53:25:13

but you did something different. And that’s what’s powerful. Like, you didn’t allow yourself to be constrained by this idea that, oh, this person’s 80. And therefore I need to have seven seven foot umbrellas and creating the softest light, like you sidestep that and did something different. So regardless, you succeeded. Like, yeah,

00:53:26:05 – 00:53:58:12

so like, yeah, I’m I’m like excited about it because it and I showed her the back of the camera and like you said, maybe she is lying. But she did actually seem very excited about them. And the reason I like took the risk with her was because the picture she showed me as inspiration, which none of which were from my own website were very like. They were just very different photos. They were not just a standard portrait. And she said, I’m a widow. I don’t really have a need for like a traditional portrait of myself.

00:53:58:14 – 00:54:10:22

I just don’t see that as why I’m here. But I’m a lover of art, and I would love something artistic. So I was like, Well, I’m just going to do something I don’t normally do and call that artistic

00:54:10:24 – 00:54:41:01

and I’m in it. And it is. And I think that’s a huge thing and you raise a great point. I was just talking to another photographer who flew in for a session with me, and we all kind of had dinner later and were just shouting life and business and things like that. But one of the things I almost always do if someone commissions me or books me is I’ll shoot what I know we need to shoot. So in my mind, I have my shot list and I’m like, OK, I’ve each like, I want to make sure I’m getting these three or four shots that are going to suit the needs and shoot my sales goals and all of that. But then I’ll get that done and then it’s time for play.

00:54:41:09 – 00:55:13:24

So I’m like, Hey, you know, like, I booked out x amount of time for you. We still have an hour. How would you feel about just having some fun? No pressure. And literally introduce it like that and put on some different music. Let them get into different clothes, use different lighting, use different backdrops, and oftentimes they end up wanting at least a couple of those experimental shots. But just as importantly, it’s a time to de-stress and decompress and just have some quality time with your clients. Even if they don’t buy any of the experimental photos, they’re probably going to buy more of those standard shots just because they’re like, Wow, I had a great time with Ashleigh.

00:55:13:26 – 00:55:26:11

Yeah, that was awesome. Like, I was very glammed out, but then we like, danced or whatever we did after the fact, and it’s like, that just gives you another touchpoint for bolstering the connection that hopefully you’ve built by that point in time.

00:55:26:24 – 00:55:29:21

Yeah, I was going to say before we close it out.

00:55:31:10 – 00:55:55:23

One last question for you. It might be a loaded one, but we say to take a single step to just get to the journey started for people that might be, have that doubt the imposter syndrome that they can never get to. Where say you are or the other photographer that you mentioned? What do you say to someone that might be afraid that they might not compare to someone they admire?

00:55:56:07 – 00:56:28:12

I say that I think comparison is the root of stagnation, and it’s one of those intangible things. But like, we can’t compare ourselves to anyone else because we are who we are. I think that you have to just move forward despite that. You know, I don’t think there’s any way to directly mediate it. It’s like, Well, how do I deal with anxiety? How do I deal with failure like you move through it? And I don’t mean in a forceful way. I don’t need to mean be dismissive of your feelings or your experiences. But if you’re worried, you go forward anyway. If you think you’re not going to get there, you keep me moving toward that destination anyway.

00:56:28:19 – 00:57:03:05

And that’s the greatest asset. A long time ago, somebody told me, I remember it must have been like five years ago, and it was someone random that I had just encountered it like a shoot out. And I’m like, You know, I want to be on the cover of Vogue. I want to do this, I want to do that. And those are my goals at that point in time. And they were like, Listen, art and creativity. It’s not. It’s not a race, it’s not a sprint, it’s an endurance contest. And so if you keep moving, you will get there. I think all of us are like, I have to be a master in three months. I have to be hitting 100k one month in the business and it’s all these. Arbitrary goals, and it’s like you will get there if you keep moving, like there is no secret sauce.

00:57:03:18 – 00:57:26:19

But if you put one foot in front of the other tangibly and in tangibly, you will get to where you want to be. So regardless of what you feel is holding you back, regardless of the self-doubt, regardless of the comparison, regardless of if for a period of time it feels like there’s a dark cloud just hovering over you just keep moving. And I promise with everything that is in me, you will get to where you want to be if you follow that one basic tenet.

00:57:27:17 – 00:57:28:17

Ladies and gentlemen, Jonny

00:57:28:19 – 00:57:29:25

Edward, yeah, preach

00:57:32:21 – 00:57:34:24

well. It’s been such a joy.

00:57:35:08 – 00:57:40:02

Yeah, it has. We know, you know, Ashleigh and I both love you

00:57:41:13 – 00:57:42:11

the love is mutual.

00:57:43:19 – 00:57:56:14

So thank you very much for imparting us with so much knowledge, you know, and everything that is Jonny Edward. Before we let you go, though, please, can you let everyone know where they might be able to find you online?

00:57:56:16 – 00:58:32:06

Yeah, of course. If you want to check out my website and actually see photos that are bigger than postage stamp size on the gram, and you can do so at WWW Dot, Jonny Edward. Edward EDWARD dot com or you can follow me on the gram. And you can find me there at Jonny JONNY  Creative. And you know, it’s funny. I actually I wanted Jonny Edward to be my name when I started an Instagram account, but there an account down there that has no followers, no posts, no likes. Knowing your with my exact name, I’ve I’ve sent this person literally like bits and I’m like, I will Venmo.

00:58:32:08 – 00:59:02:12

You like five hundred dollars or send you crypto? Did you release this account? And it’s just been sitting there. But now still, it’s like people see me and they’re like, Yo, J.C., what’s good? Your Johnny Creative, right? I’m like, Well, I’m Jonny Edward. But yeah, I’m Jonny Creative. It’s cool, but you can. And it’s worked out. But yeah, you can find me there. And, you know, same thing if any of you have any questions. I love connecting with artists, so shoot me a DM, send me an email. I always love to chat about all of this. It’s what I do regardless. So, so reach out and connect. That’s my greatest joy.

00:59:02:14 – 00:59:03:05

Don’t hesitate,

00:59:04:04 – 00:59:07:21

I reiterate, that is a fantastic human being. Everybody just reached out to me

00:59:07:24 – 00:59:10:09

if you couldn’t tell from this conversation.

00:59:11:05 – 00:59:28:25

And yeah, and if any of you are going to be at WPPI too, I’ll be there running an interactive studio on the trade show floor, very focused on diversity and inclusivity. So if you’re at WPPI, find me. I’ll probably be wearing some ridiculous floral jacket and I have had that too, so I’ll be hard to miss. And let’s say hi to each other. Exactly.

00:59:29:12 – 01:00:01:12

All right, everyone go follow Jonny and make sure to follow The Portrait System on Instagram and on Facebook as well. Also, be sure to check out the blog posts that are associated with our Clubhouse interviews at SueBryceEducation.com/blog. And you can also follow Ashleigh on Instagram at Ashleigh Taylor Portrait. That is ASHLEIGH  and you can find me there as PopLight_Photography. If you are a member of Sue Bryce Education and you have more questions for Jonny, Ashleigh, or myself, go tag us.

01:00:01:14 – 01:00:19:02

In a post in the SBE Members Only Facebook group. And if you are not a member of Sue Bryce Education and you’re interested in learning more about how it can help your business succeed. Reach out to our support team by emailing support@SueBryceEducation.com. Thank you again for joining us and hope you can join us next week.

Thanks again for listening today. And don’t forget, you can listen to either me or our special guests every Friday on Club House at 11:00 a.m. Pacific. Thank you so much for listening to the Portrait System Podcast. Your five-star reviews really help us to continue what we do. So, if you like listening, would you mind giving us a review wherever you listen? I also encourage you to head over to SueBryceEducation.com, where you can find all of the education you need to be a successful photographer. There are over 1,000 on-demand educational videos on things like posing, lighting, styling, retouching, shooting, marketing, sales, business, and self-value. 

There’s also the 90 Day Startup Challenge, plus so many downloads showing hundreds of different poses. We have to-do checklists for your business, lighting PDFs, I mean truly everything to help make you a better photographer and to make you more money. Once again, that’s SueBryceEducation.com.