Epic Print Sales with Ben Marcum

February 18, 2022 Artist Spotlight

Clubhouse Conversation: Ben Marcum

Imagine selling fine-art-style-and-size, boudoir wall art to your clients. Think it can’t be done? Well, Ben does it!

In the latest episode of the Portrait System Podcast: Clubhouse Edition, Kevin Conde and Ashleigh Taylor chat with Louisville, KY, based portrait photographer Ben Marcum about how he regularly sells large-scale wall art to his clients — even boudoir shots.

When Ben started, he shot a little bit of everything before honing in on headshots for awhile. Then, a friend gave him the advice that what he should shoot is what he likes to look at. It was a mind-shift moment for Ben, and he pivoted to creating big, beautiful art pieces inspired by the family art in the Brennan Mansion that housed the Louisville Opera where he spent much time in his youth.

Be sure to listen to the whole podcast to hear how Ben is bringing back the normalcy of hanging large portraits in the home. You won’t want to miss hearing how he educates his clients about how if we treat something as special, it becomes special, and that is where heirlooms start. He also goes into:

  • why he loves shooting tethered — and what he does if clients want to keep peeking,
  • how he manages doing same day reveals,
  • how the order in which he pitches his products nets so many wall art sales,
  • who primarily buys it,
  • and how ProSelect is an absolute gamechanger.

You also won’t want to miss hearing how Ben is able to transform the attitude of a client who doesn’t like what they see in their portraits by gently getting to the bottom of what is troubling them in how they are seeing themself.

In this blog, you’ll find some of Ben’s classically-inspired portraits, links to his websites, and answers to some bonus questions.

Here are links to some things mentioned in this conversation:

Join us live every Friday for Clubhouse conversations and get answers to your questions! Just search “The Portrait System” in the Clubhouse App and follow us there.

Get to Know Ben Marcum

Q: When did you first come across Sue Bryce Education, and how has it affected your career?

A: I was still very new to photography at the time I first found Sue on Creative Live. I live-streamed her classes, then eventually, bought the 28 Days course.  So, I guess you can say from the very beginning!  As for how the platform/Sue has affected my career, she was the first educator who I came across who actually talked about the earning potential and how to do it.  At that point, every other educator was strictly focused on the technical, which is huge, but the confidence to charge rates that enable us to live is huge. I credit Sue for helping me to find my confidence with my sales and rates.

Q: When first starting out, many photographers hit roadblocks on their journey to starting their business — whether they feel their equipment isn’t good enough, or that they need a studio to start a business. What roadblocks did you encounter, and how did you get over them?

A: I fell into the social media trap. I was brand new to this and had no North Star. At the time, Facebook was the main social platform. I was looking everywhere for what looked like successful photographers and tried to emulate a lot. Because of that, I thought that meant I had to shoot families, weddings, babies, fashion, conceptual — everything.  What actually ended up happening is I sat in one place just spinning my wheels.

After a “fashion” shoot one night in my small home studio, as I set culling images, I thought, “Who cares? This is going to go on social media, get a few likes, then it’s gone.” At that point, I decided I was going to laser focus on headshots, and that changed everything. Then from that foundation, what I do has expanded to portraits and boudoir (and still headshots). Because of that switch flip, I am completely comfortable and confident creating in my style, and that has attracted clients who love what I do.

Q: How do you feel about your current work/life balance?

A: What is this “balance” of which you speak?

My wife would say my work/life balance sucks, but the truth of it is, I simply love working.  However, I don’t shoot nights, and I rarely take clients on weekends. I will edit, work on the website, social, marketing, etc. If I’m not “at work,” I am thinking about it. I also now find myself wanting to start a 2nd business.

Q: What (beyond money) has owning a business given you?

A: Pride. I built this. All of the ups and downs, sleepless nights, etc. I built it and no one can take it from me.  I also love knowing I’m in control of my future. 

Q: What is your favorite advice that you’ve been given along your journey that has helped you the most?

A: It’s ok to be nervous starting something new or pushing yourself. That means you are on the right path.

Create art you want to look at.
If you are going to do a thing, do it all the way.


Subscribe to The Podcast

ART19SpotifyStitcherTuneInRadioPublicApple Podcast


 

 

 

 

Ben Marcum

Follow Ben: Website – InstagramTikTok


 

Transcript

Click Here to Read the Podcast Transcript

FULL TRANSCRIPT: Please note this transcript was generated by AI and may contain errors.

00:00:01:04 – 00:00:26:11

This is the Portrait System podcast, a show that helps portrait photographers and people hoping to become one. Navigate the world of photography, business money and so much more. We totally keep it real. We share stories about the incredible ups and the very difficult downs when running a photography business. I’m your host, Nikki Closser, and the point of this podcast is for you to learn actionable steps that you can take to grow your own business and also to feel inspired and empowered by the stories you hear.

00:00:27:03 – 00:00:36:00

Hey everyone, it’s Nikki Closser here, and your Clubhouse episode this week is with your hosts Ashleigh and Kevin, of course, and their guest is Ben Marcum.

00:00:36:08 – 00:00:50:25

They talked all about how he sells large prints like very large prints, how he markets them, who is purchasing them, the price for the prints and just everything you need to know about prints. So it’s a really great episode. Let’s get started with Ashleigh, Kevin, and Ben.

00:00:51:26 – 00:01:22:11

Welcome everyone to the Portrait System podcast Clubhouse Edition. My name is Kevin Conde, and I’m here with my co-host Ashleigh Taylor. If you are not familiar with The Portrait System, we are a portrait photography podcast that is powered by Sue Bryce. Nikki Closser hosts our Monday episode, and Ashleigh and I co-host our Clubhouse Edition, which is live here on the Clubhouse app every Friday at Noon Pacific, except for today. And then our episodes are released on Thursdays. You can tune in on your favorite podcast app by searching for The Portrait System.

00:01:23:02 – 00:01:23:29

Ashleigh, how you doing?

00:01:24:22 – 00:01:34:25

I’m great, Kevin, and I’m just so excited to be co-hosting our chat and to introduce our guests for today, Ben Marcum. So welcome, Ben.

00:01:35:12 – 00:01:36:23

Hi, thanks for having me.

00:01:37:10 – 00:02:11:10

So when we’re looking for guests, we’re looking within our community to see if there’s anything that catches our eye that we feel that would really bring value to everyone. You were actually recommended to us, and as I was looking you up, I actually remember seeing some of your posts within the group and seeing the posts that you made about your redesign of your studio space. With the entrance area being more luxurious, you know, you painted the walls, new dropped ceiling and everything. And I took note of the fact that you have large portraits that are hanging in your space.

00:02:11:17 – 00:02:52:16

And I remember going further back because of that post and seeing a wall portrait that was almost the full height of a wall. So we wanted to talk to you today about your painterly style portraits, your boudoir work in how you approach the sale of such large pieces. So to start us off, how did you come to decide that the painterly portraits were the direction that you wanted to go with your art? Is it a style that you feel really speaks to you and your artistic self? Or was it? I bet I can really sell people the idea of looking like classical paintings.

00:02:53:12 – 00:03:31:12

You know, it really it was organic sort of thing. Like, I came to photography after another artistic career and when I when I jumped in and I picked up a camera, I didn’t really have any idea what I wanted to do. So I think I did that thing that a lot of us do when we start like, I’m going to shoot everything, you know, weddings and babies. And I think I shot candy for somebody at some point. So there was like everything. And, you know, then I ended up, you know, my previous career, I was in a professional theater, so I was like, You know what? I know headshots.

00:03:31:14 – 00:04:04:06

I’ve seen them my whole life. Let’s go that route. So it started there, and I kind of built my confidence and my business there. And then as things were going like I, I wanted more. I wanted to stretch a little and I started and actually I stumbled across Sue on a on creative live and I was like, Well, this is a whole other. I can do this as well. And so I started going down that path and it. It was a lot of fiddling and fumbling around to try to figure out my voice and not trying to mimic somebody else’s.

00:04:04:22 – 00:04:30:18

And I started to land on where I wanted to be, and a fellow photographer sat me down one day and was like, Man, you just got to shoot stuff that you want to look at and make with that simple, simple sentence. It flipped the switch in my brain and it was like, I like looking at big, beautiful art. That’s what I want to do. And so that’s that was then it was all downhill from there.

00:04:33:04 – 00:05:01:00

Would you say that like you are someone who’s like, always loved to go to museums and look at like these kind of old world paintings, like because it’s always been something that you’ve been fascinated by or like? Yeah, because it’s still like one of those things where I’m like, It’s so unique to me personally. I feel like especially in the SBE group where it’s so fashion inspired. Yeah, editorial kind of inspired vogue inspired and this feel. So much more classical to me.

00:05:02:06 – 00:05:33:28

And thank you. And it’s, you know, I was lucky when I was a girl. Like, I’ve been surrounded by the arts since I was a wee young lad. My mom worked at Kentucky Opera and so I was in theater and all of that. The Kentucky Opera was located when she was there was an old Victorian mansion here in Louisville called the Brennen House, which still had all of the family’s furniture in portrait. It’s basically a museum, you know, an actual house of, you know, how these folks lived.

00:05:34:15 – 00:06:00:16

And so I was around the Brennan’s art from a really young age like it was, I guess, you know, normalized for me that oh, no big big pieces of portraiture can live in a in a house. So I think it was more of that and the museums followed, you know, afterwards. And you know, I’m telling stories on myself. I’m a bit of a homebody. It can be a little bit challenging to get me out of the house,

00:06:01:20 – 00:06:04:24

but I think all three of us share this.

00:06:06:03 – 00:06:24:25

But my my wife is actually great at going, No, we’re going out, we’re going to go. So she’s been really good from all of our relationship from, you know, dragging me to music, dragging me. I make it sound like I’ll kicking and screaming the whole. But, you know, going to museums and traveling in different places to see art. So I have to give mad credit to her.

00:06:25:17 – 00:07:02:05

That’s awesome. I love that you said that you’re used to seeing large scale portraits in the home because of the spread and how it’s like. I think as like a business owner, photographer myself, one of the hardest things for me was selling Warhol portraits is constantly hearing the objection. I just don’t have room in my home for wall art. Like, I don’t, it’s either. I don’t value having a giant picture in my home or that would be vain or simply there.

00:07:03:02 – 00:07:16:02

The excuse, I guess, is that there’s just not enough wall space. So I’m wondering, like, how do you combat that when a potential client or an actual client or those objections even still get any more?

00:07:17:09 – 00:07:49:03

Oh, sure. Yeah, I still absolutely get that. You know, I come out in a couple of different ways, you know, I mean, first off, people come into the studio and in the front room, well, everywhere here there’s large pieces of art on the wall. So I’m I’m trying to normalize it right out of the gate. You know, it’s you. You sell what you show. So I’m going to show the big things in big, beautiful frames and they’re lit. And I talk to clients a lot about if you treat something special, it becomes special.

00:07:49:06 – 00:08:23:19

So, you know, no matter what barriers it’s, you know, your childhood baseball glove or whatever, you know, it’s if it’s special to you, it is. So if they treat their portraits like they are special, like they’re important, then they’re more likely to get them on the walls and then their family and their friends are more likely to also treat them as they’re important. And really, that’s where the heirloom starts. So we talk about that. I try to show, you know, on my social that in my home, there’s large pieces of art that we’ve collected.

00:08:23:27 – 00:08:55:27

There’s a large portrait of my wife hanging in our stairwell. So I don’t just talk the talk, I’m walking it as well. You know, as far as people going, I don’t have space, Pro Select is a godsend. Being able if I can get people to take the photos of their walls with an eight and a half by 11 sheet of paper on it, I can show them their art on their walls. And that’s that’s huge, because now they’re now there is no well, or will it fit the.

00:08:55:29 – 00:09:25:07

Yes, it will. And here’s how it’s going to look, and it’s going to be beautiful. You know, and I think it’s also like, I get excited about it. And so I think that excitement carries over. And so it’s it’s a multi-headed beast, but it’s you know, I think if you really love what it is that you’re creating what you’re selling, your clients are going to love it too. And I think because they present that way, I attract more clients who are excited about bigger pieces.

00:09:25:27 – 00:09:56:17

You know that that’s actually an extremely interesting way of approaching it because you know what, what really has value in this world aside from the things that we ourselves put value on? So if you make the idea of, Hey, look, this amazing, huge wall piece is important and you need to view it as such, then ultimately they’ll end up putting that value in wanting it and desiring it. You know, something of that size?

00:09:57:16 – 00:10:02:21

Yeah. And I missed a part of that question because, you know, people calling me like to try to ruin podcast.

00:10:04:17 – 00:10:37:07

But, but yeah, that’s that really is it, and once you for me, once I started breaking things down for people of, you know, if you make it important, it becomes as such. People start thinking about other things they have in their in their homes that that have that value. And so then now there’s a real, tangible thing. So they they realize that if they can put that value on, you know, grandma’s quilt or whatever, that that same value can be put on other things.

00:10:38:16 – 00:11:09:14

Can I ask you to go into Pro Select a little bit because I feel like we don’t have a ton of education on Pro Select, and it’s definitely a tool that I’ve heard, but I don’t even have. It has, like, super helpful with selling wall portraits in particular. Is it something that’s intuitive to use? Do you have to like take classes in it? Like do they provide education on how to use it? Like how how does Pro Select as a tool like really influence wall art sales?

00:11:10:23 – 00:11:55:27

I mean, the biggest thing is the way that it influences is that you can decide, you know, either groupings of images or one big image and put it in the client’s home, and it’s through a tool that they partner with are called Send My Rooms. It’s a Pro Select is pretty intuitive to use and at least when I purchased it a couple of years ago, like once I at that point, I downloaded a free trial and then one of the members of their team and I scheduled a call and they walked me through how to set up the price list, how to go through and, you know, do the culling process with clients, how to set up rooms and all of it.

00:11:55:29 – 00:12:00:03

So it’s it’s a they’re really customer friendly.

00:12:01:06 – 00:12:43:14

That’s really cool to know, because I think Felicia Reed brought that same service up and like software up, and I know she is also very successful at selling large and wall portraits and beautiful groupings, and that it really helps like get her average sales so much higher than just a folio box or an album sale. So I love that. Now we’re hearing another person talk about how influential that is to get there while portrait sales up. And I’m another question I have is like, Are you projecting the images when you show them in a reveal or how do you actually present the images?

00:12:44:03 – 00:12:49:20

I totally use that as an excuse to buy a new 65 inch TV for the studio.

00:12:49:27 – 00:12:51:09

Yeah.

00:12:52:23 – 00:13:28:12

So the way I work is I actually do same day reveal I used to go back and shoot the client, send them on their way. I’d go edit and invite them back and show them 25 or 30 images. I don’t do that anymore. Quite frankly, I’m too slow at editing, and it’s just not. It didn’t have a good ROI for me, so I shoot tethered the entire time with everybody. And then while they’re changing and doing their final, you know, getting packed up, I do a really fast cull and we go straight to my sales room.

00:13:28:27 – 00:13:35:02

I do, you know, share screen via AirDrop to the TV, and we do it that way.

00:13:35:17 – 00:13:36:02

Wow.

00:13:36:19 – 00:13:55:24

Are you ever concerned like they’re not going to like their images when you’re doing that, where all of a sudden like, Oh, you know, you didn’t get the opportunity to burn an area down or kind of hide or nip and tuck a little tiny bit, or they’re like, Oh my god, I hate these images of myself when you’re showing to them in completely raw, straight out camera.

00:13:56:14 – 00:13:58:02

No, I don’t. It’s.

00:13:59:19 – 00:14:31:01

I’m pretty good at if they go, Oh, well, you know, my arm looks big there and then I go, you know, really? OK, so I just pop it over into Photoshop real fast and give it a quick nudge and go, is that better? And they go, Oh yeah, that’s great. OK, perfect. You know, and I in my consultations and things when I when I’m explaining my process and that we’re going to view things the same day, I tell people, it’s like, we’re obviously going to be looking at the unedited images. But by now, you’ve seen my work online and it’s going to be hanging all over the studio.

00:14:31:03 – 00:14:53:07

So you’re going to have a pretty good idea of what your finished product is going to look like. Naturally, if you have any concerns while we’re looking through your images, bring them up, and I’ll let you know if that’s something that can be taken care of and with the magic of Photoshop, and everybody’s been really receptive with that and doing this way, I’ve never had anybody come back and go buy everything is just garbage juice.

00:14:53:13 – 00:14:53:28

But

00:14:56:27 – 00:15:13:00

one thing I was wondering, too, is like, how many are you narrowing it down to when you do this quick cull? Because I don’t know about like, I guess your fast color coding is like something that I like to sit on it. I need to like, have a coffee, come back, pet a cat

00:15:14:20 – 00:15:18:07

or something. Yeah, it’s it’s it’s

00:15:18:09 – 00:15:34:24

a laborious process for me personally, as I’m always in on people who can just like, like shoot, look at their images, call. So, yeah, like, are you? Are you like showing 100 images? Are you really showing just 30? Like, what is this like?

00:15:35:09 – 00:16:09:26

I typically the first go round, probably around 100 ish, OK? And in a session total, like, I don’t hit the button a lot anymore, which is great. So I maybe take, you know, 150 175 images total while we’re working and then just go through and get rid of all the blanks and the funny faces and things. And it’s sometimes like I’m showing clients images that I may not love, but they end up loving them.

00:16:09:28 – 00:16:11:29

And so that that’s been a real.

00:16:13:27 – 00:16:37:04

Brain tweak for me, it’s, you know, because I go, if I don’t love it, they shouldn’t see it, but they respond to things differently. And ultimately, my job is to send them away with things that they love, so. So I’m not afraid to show them things that if it’s if it’s really bad, they’re not going to see it. But if it’s something where I go, I know that could be better, but they’re going to dig on it. I still love it.

00:16:37:24 – 00:17:08:07

Yeah, I mean, I’m really glad you brought this up. It’s something I’ve been experimenting with. Not same day, but like because like I said, I need a little bit of time. I took all my images, but kind of like next day or within 48 hours and doing reveals that where I’m showing the unretouched images, I tend to do this on personal branding shoots or with clients who I know I’ve either worked with a lot or I work sometimes with professional actors, models, people who are they’re hiring me for the shoot.

00:17:08:15 – 00:17:13:29

But there are people who are used to seeing themselves a lot. So they’re like, I guess, less

00:17:15:18 – 00:17:36:09

critical of themselves in a certain way. And it’s been going really well. But then I did it with like what you might call a more real person recently, and it was the first time in like years where they just took the very like, very, very minimum order and were like. And when they were looking at them all like unretouched, they’re like, No, no. No,

00:17:37:24 – 00:18:00:11

when I delivered the retouched files, they were like, Oh my gosh, these are so gorgeous. So I could tell that there was like a disconnect for them in seeing the unretouched versus the retouched, if that makes sense. And so it’s just like, does that ever happen to you where you’re just like, I think it would have been better had this person. Seen the, you know, the final.

00:18:00:26 – 00:18:40:07

No, not yet. I mean, not that it’ll never happen, and I hope it doesn’t. But a lot of times what’ll happen if I’m showing people images and they’re just no, no, no, no, no. And especially if it’s images that I look at it and go, Oh man, that’s smoking. And then I’ll ask him, like, OK, what in this image isn’t speaking to you? There’s no right or wrong. Answer this. This just helps me, you know, be able to to get to the to what you want. And a lot of times they’ll come back and be like, you know, oh, it’s you know, it’s it’s human stuff that we all have to, you know, have the conversation of going, OK.

00:18:40:09 – 00:19:14:08

So you see a thing that nobody else on the planet or what we get to talk about it. And once we’re back and I’m going to finger quote here, like once I can talk them off a limb on something that doesn’t really matter, then everything starts becoming yeses. And it’s not me trying to change their mind or hard, hard sell them. But you know, more helping them realize that the rest of the world doesn’t see that thing on your face. Or it’s, you know, the FedEx arrow, if you will, if they knew you fixate on it because you know that it’s there, nobody else sees it.

00:19:14:15 – 00:19:16:13

So everything’s great.

00:19:16:25 – 00:19:34:16

Yeah, yeah. I love that. Yeah, and that’s kind of what I did to you. I was like, What’s going on here? But ultimately, I didn’t really get an answer, and I was surprised when I delivered like the retouched images and they were like, So thrilled, you know, because I was like, Oh man, you really gave me a heart attack.

00:19:35:29 – 00:19:47:03

So not to jump off the interview, but when you when you see that happen, actually, do you ever go back to be all like, Hey, you did love them? Do you want to, you know, go through them again to,

00:19:48:03 – 00:20:22:07

you know, I feel like because what happened was the mom, it was like a teenage girl. Mm hmm. So it was really the mom and the mom was the one. The girl was very quiet during reveal, and the mom was just like, No, and you could hear it in her voice. She was unhappy or something, you know what I mean? Like, she just was like, No, no. And then when she called me, when she got the retouched prints and, you know, images from the package, her voice sounded like a different person. And so then I was just like, Oh, I’m so glad you love them.

00:20:22:09 – 00:21:00:28

And she she was like, raving about everything. She’s like, Oh, my daughter loved you, blah blah blah. And I was like, Well, I hope we can have like a family portrait session in the future. So I’m just hoping that like it educated them for the future. But yeah, it was definitely one of those things where in hindsight, I wonder, had I done my normal process of retouching everything first, if it would have gone a lot better. So I keep like kind of going back and forth between this unretouched process and the retouch because definitely I save time and money if I don’t retouch everything first.

00:21:01:02 – 00:21:28:22

Unless, of course, you get a total bomb like this. So I love talking about it and finding out more about this process because I think it’s something I want to personally work on this year and refine and get more confident. I think my pictures are pretty damn good straight out of the camera, but you know there’s always more to learn. Yeah. So Ben, I was going to ask you like how like when you’re shooting tethered, are they able to see it? Like how involved in the process are they during the shooting part?

00:21:29:18 – 00:21:37:03

Most of the time, they don’t see the screen while we’re working. I more do it for, for me and for the makeup artist.

00:21:38:20 – 00:22:08:24

She, the makeup artist will often be like right over my shoulder watching the screen because, you know, sometimes especially in the heat of the moment, like, I’ll miss my hair being out of place or something. So an extra set of eyes is gold. Yeah. But then at the same time, like if we get something that I know is out of this world and is going to help the client feel more comfortable, I can grab the big screen and turn it around and let them see it so that then build confidence with them.

00:22:09:16 – 00:22:16:07

So going forward, they know we’re getting gold, so I will use it as a tool somewhat. Mm hmm.

00:22:16:19 – 00:22:22:08

What are you having the? Is it like a monitor that you have? Is it right next to you?

00:22:24:27 – 00:22:46:08

Yes, so I have, you know, typically my laptop is close to me, so I have that screen and then I have it connected to a 32 inch TV in the space on a rolling stand. So, you know, I can move it around as we’re moving sets. And then it’s that way the makeup artist isn’t blocking my screen when we’re reviewing.

00:22:47:00 – 00:22:55:09

But it’s not something where the client is constantly like. They’re aware that it’s there and they’re like, Oh, let me go, check it out because I feel like I have some ladies who definitely.

00:22:57:07 – 00:23:05:07

I get some who try and go playfully. It’ll be the other that you get to see it in a second and calm down, and then they laugh.

00:23:07:03 – 00:23:13:17

That’s funny. Yeah, I think it’s all about your energy and how you control the situation with something that

00:23:14:12 – 00:23:33:01

you said you had your makeup artists there right next year to potentially look for something that you might miss. Is this something where you you trained her to like, Hey, look out for these things? Look, you know? Or is it just her knowing like, OK and hair is out of place? Let me go ahead and adjust that before you take your next shot.

00:23:33:26 – 00:23:56:16

I’ve worked with the makeup artist team that I’m working with now for like six years or so. So they really know how I work and things that I look for there. The couple of artists on the team that I work with. The most know things that make me crazy in post. And so they they just have learned over the years what I’m going to respond to.

00:23:58:17 – 00:24:11:08

But, you know, at this point, you know, they’re they’re just a member of the team. They they know what the final output wants to be and kind of what we’re aiming for. So they just have an eye for it now.

00:24:12:09 – 00:24:29:06

Speaking of like styling too one thing, I was wondering when I was looking at your work is because you have this beautiful, finer, painterly style. A lot of people are like draped or they’re definitely not wearing clothes that I would associate with, like modern every

00:24:29:08 – 00:24:30:01

day going

00:24:30:03 – 00:25:03:10

out like, yeah, you don’t got people in jeans as far as I saw in this more like painterly look. So, yeah, it’s like, How are you? Are you providing these kind of like more painterly drapey kind of outfits for them? Or are you coaching them? Also, I noticed like the colors are very specific. Like, you know, again, you don’t seem like someone in a gold sequins number showing up. So. So yeah. Can you talk a little bit about that? Like how you could keep it consistent with your style? The wardrobe itself?

00:25:04:02 – 00:25:34:16

Sure. So like, I will actually shoot jeans and things on people. I actually just had a client in a couple of weeks ago where she wanted to, and she put it, capture both sides of her personality. So she wanted to do something very soft with lingerie and kind of a draping robe. But then she was also like, you know, would this leather pants, leather jacket sort of thing? And we shot a much more modern looking vibe.

00:25:35:07 – 00:26:14:13

And you know, it’s not that I can’t shoot it. I just don’t that often. But I do shoot other things. Just a lot of times I won’t posted on social or on my website, you know, so that everything stays consistent. I think it’s really important for when people are shopping to be able to look at my work and they know what they’re going to get, you know, or at least know the foundation. If they ask me for something else, I can certainly let them know if I can do it or not. With a lot of the a lot of the dresses and things that you see on my feed are the client brings with them.

00:26:14:15 – 00:26:17:06

I do have a small wardrobe that I’m slowly growing.

00:26:18:29 – 00:26:42:00

There’s one of the pieces in my Instagram right now is a is a costume piece that I had created, inspired by works by artists like Peter Lilley from from that period. But I don’t do a lot of costumey vibes often. You know, it’s rare if I do, you know, with a lot of the boudoir work, it’s literally just fabric.

00:26:42:06 – 00:26:45:09

Yeah, that’s what I was noticing. So do you provide that fabric

00:26:45:21 – 00:26:58:00

I do. I have a couple dressers full of various fabrics here and always looking for interesting colors and textures and things that are going to provide a little bit of depth in the final image.

00:26:58:23 – 00:27:29:22

That’s very cool, because, yeah, it definitely feels very like even your boudoir work. It’s not really what I think of when I think of the word boudoir. It’s like more fine art nude, and it’s really beautiful. I think how it reminds me of like paintings where bodies were more voluptuous and curvy and soft and kind of celebrating that. And I think your work does a really beautiful job of like celebrating.

00:27:29:24 – 00:27:44:19

Yeah, like all the curves of a woman’s body, and it’s not so much like a lingerie in the bed, but more like this draping. Or you had this shot with like pearls down the back, which was so beautiful. So I love that.

00:27:44:29 – 00:28:16:06

Thank you. It’s you know, and I do shoot, you know, lingerie on people as well. You know, in end of the day, I shoot what people want to shoot you. And I the only reason and this is going to sound so pretentious and I apologize in advance. The only reason I really even use the term boudoir is because it’s a term that people know when people know to do with, yeah, when they go to Google, they’re going to look for that as opposed to, you know, fine art, intimate portrait or whatever, you know.

00:28:16:08 – 00:28:27:16

So I don’t think what I do is but why in the in the modern sense of it, not that there’s anything wrong with it and there’s people who do it beautifully. It’s just not my jam.

00:28:27:21 – 00:29:11:17

Yeah, yeah. And I I think that that’s what you just said is so key because I remember, like Sue, I don’t think she does anymore, but she used to have this like kind of twitch in her eye. Whenever everyone would say the word boudoir, you’re like, Oh, and she would sometimes tell me, like, Oh, stop using that word in your marketing because your photos are like so much more than that. But I would always be like, Yeah, but that’s like how people search me like that. So people, like a lot of my clients, simply come from boudoir photographer near me or Santa Barbara boudoir photographer on Google, you know? So I think that there’s a lot of power in that word, even if, yeah.

00:29:11:23 – 00:29:24:25

You don’t think of yourself. Yeah, and and and I love the idea of like expanding the genre to mean so much more than just a stereotypical like legs up the wall shot or something.

00:29:25:06 – 00:29:26:17

Right, exactly.

00:29:28:12 – 00:29:45:17

So with boudoir, do you use a wall art for that as well, because that’s a particular one that seems to always get a lot of pushback when it comes to wall art. For me personally, like, oh no, those photos are private, we don’t put that naked photo on the wall.

00:29:48:07 – 00:29:48:28

You know,

00:29:50:02 – 00:30:02:13

I do absolutely sell large pieces of the wall work, and I’ve sold 24 by 36 and it’s up to 80 to 40 by 60. A couple of months ago. So wow. Yeah.

00:30:03:07 – 00:30:19:21

So how do you? Yeah, how do you do you get that pushback of like? I mean, are all your clients like Samantha from Sex in the City? Like, we’re putting a giant naked photo of me up on the wall? Or are they just like, you know, a little nervous about that

00:30:20:23 – 00:30:26:15

first part of it comes out. It’s like, nobody goes, I’m going to put this in my living room. You know,

00:30:26:24 – 00:30:27:23

So no Samanthas

00:30:28:13 – 00:30:55:05

Right. It’s not that we can’t create a piece that would work over somebody’s fireplace, but that’s a little bit of a harder sell. Typically, the folks who are buying large pieces, large intimate pieces they already have in mind where they want them to go so they know what’s going to go in a bedroom or or something like that, where it’s going to be more private eyes just for them. And the significant other to enjoy together

00:30:56:25 – 00:31:00:18

or enjoy themselves. I have sold portraits to single people as well.

00:31:02:18 – 00:31:33:04

So and I think some people get surprised when they see their work because they a lot of people don’t come into the process. Fully understanding, or maybe it just hasn’t clicked yet that it can be very artistic, and so then once they once they see it and they go. Oh, I, you know, and then it clicks, right, it’s you know, it’s like what Sue says frequently and you know, talking about, you know, some people spend hours and some people spend that and you won’t know until you see it.

00:31:33:22 – 00:31:46:28

It’s the same thing until people see it, they don’t really know. I saw that. So I’ve I’ve been surprised by a few where people go, Oh yeah, that needs to be big and beautifully framed. OK, let’s do that.

00:31:48:24 – 00:32:13:24

Find a particular demographic or is looking for that style of portrait work to be put into bedrooms, hallways outer rooms? And if so, what type of look is it? Is it more of a crop? Then detailed shot or more of the drapey full body? Look to it.

00:32:15:03 – 00:32:37:17

It is. So far it has tended to be more of the draped full body type or 3 quarter to full body type shots in either standing or reclined. Demographic wise, it’s 95 percent of the time it’s it’s been women in their 40s to mid 50s.

00:32:38:12 – 00:33:02:23

That’s really interesting. I think it’s kind of not. It’s kind of what you might think because like in my experience, that demographic is the demographic that spends the most and has most disposable income. So yes, that tracks. But then on the other hand, it may not be what everyone thinks of as like an age where you might be like, Yes, we’re put in the naked photo, but I love that. I think it’s fabulous.

00:33:03:18 – 00:33:35:24

And what’s been cool is, like a lot of the women who don’t like they, they have a lot of them have been through things or whatever, and they they have come into their strength and their power, and they’re proud of themselves. They’re proud of what they’ve been through. And so it really it really is about celebration and it. They feel amazing when they see it. So it’s you know, yeah, I don’t know if it’s if it’s an age and maturity thing or or just a life experience thing, but it’s always a really

00:33:37:15 – 00:33:46:04

empowering moment when for me, we are not empowering is the wrong word. It’s an exciting moment all the way around when they’re like, Yup, that’s going on my wall.

00:33:46:11 – 00:33:50:04

Yeah, I love that. That’s really I love that, but it’s really inspiring.

00:33:50:22 – 00:34:21:00

So you said that people are looking for this particular type of image. Do you ever have a moment where you recommend this subject to someone? Inquire someone inquiring about it like, you know why I do do live off? Which you might fine nude portraits? Is that something that you’re interested in or is that just like out the window and you just allow them to find your work? And if they want to go in that direction, you will do it.

00:34:22:15 – 00:34:53:00

And so if I’m understanding the question correctly, you’re asking, how do I present that I do shoot nude work? Correct. A lot of it is like, I don’t shy away from showing it on my social media, on my website, you know, it’s hanging here in the studio. So I think a lot of people don’t necessarily know that A, a nude is an option or B, that the more artistic style is something

00:34:55:07 – 00:35:18:00

that they can, but that exists, that they can have. So it’s I have to be proactive about presenting it and getting it out to the world and getting it seen. And then also with my SEO, because a lot of people, when I’m doing consultations, they’ll say, you know, I was, you know, is going to be while photographers and I saw your stuff, it looks nothing like anybody else’s,

00:35:19:15 – 00:35:26:21

but it’s just putting it out there. I mean, and if people don’t know it exists, they ain’t going to buy it.

00:35:27:23 – 00:35:47:00

Yeah, I think that’s so key, that’s what goes back to like you, so show what you want to sell, and it really does work that way. When you show it, people are then aware that it’s an option for them and that they want that. We do have a question from Carrie. So Carrie, welcome.

00:35:47:21 – 00:35:48:19

Hello. Can you hear me?

00:35:48:25 – 00:35:50:02

Yes, we can.

00:35:50:15 – 00:35:52:24

OK, great. Great interview.

00:35:53:13 – 00:35:58:06

I’ve been. I checked out your Instagram already. Great stuff. I was wondering

00:35:58:08 – 00:36:39:09

a couple of things. Do you have like a basic go to lighting setup for your work? And how how did you develop your your your editing process after the after the fact? Great questions go to lighting set up. It’s a it’s a variation or on what ugly Felix calls his signature lighting set up. So, you know, it’s a setup that I’ve been using for a long time, and then I, I really tweak it and move it around as need be, depending on what the who the subject is, where the light and shadow was appealing, what the clothes they’re wearing, etc.

00:36:39:17 – 00:36:41:05

But that’s the foundation.

00:36:42:18 – 00:36:48:17

And just to interject, that’s Felix Kunze’s Lighting Series at the Portrait Masters store.

00:36:48:19 – 00:36:53:06

Yes, yes, OK, which is a great course. If you haven’t checked it out, do it.

00:36:55:01 – 00:37:07:01

So then in the second part of your thinking, Oh, my editing style, it came from like I’ve and error over time, really?

00:37:09:12 – 00:37:32:22

You know, I just kept learning and trying and stumbling over things and going too far with some things and then not going far enough with the others. And I bounce things off of trusted friends like people whose eyes I trust, you know, Alana Lee, for example, gets to the book and a lot of my work before it ever goes up because I trust her more.

00:37:33:21 – 00:37:38:27

Yeah, she’s amazing. Shout out to Alana. She’s she’s an incredible photographer in our community.

00:37:39:10 – 00:37:53:19

Yeah. If you haven’t checked out all of her stuff, do that as well. But yes, it’s you know, it just trial and error on until I landed on a workflow that I like. Great, thank you.

00:37:54:03 – 00:37:55:04

Thank you, Carrie.

00:37:55:28 – 00:37:56:13

Thanks.

00:37:58:24 – 00:38:27:28

So I have another question for you, Ben, which is about pricing psychology for packages, because I really do believe that that can. Really kind of make or break while our sales, do you have any tips for how to go about pricing your your wall art into packages or, you know, how do you steer people with pricing in that direction?

00:38:29:00 – 00:39:04:18

So I really don’t do wall art packages like I have an album that I offer and then I have, you know, the collection of my tenants or what have you. But once we start getting into the bigger plans, I don’t package it. Just it’s a la carte at that point. Now, if we get to the end of a sale and I’ve got to have some room to maneuver, I will have I need to. But that’s really, really rare. But with that comes, I have to know my numbers and know what my margins are so that I know if I want to keep, you know, my my cost of goods within a certain range or whatever.

00:39:04:27 – 00:39:08:15

Yeah. You know, like knowing your numbers is really important.

00:39:08:29 – 00:39:23:13

Yeah. So if you’re selling an a la carte, like, do you feel like the album? Competes at all with the wall art or like, how do you talk someone into getting both?

00:39:24:15 – 00:39:55:04

So my album is actually my number one seller. It’s the thing that walks out the door the most. But with wall art, I start the sale with wall art. Once we do the call together, then I’ll go there and go, OK, let’s talk about what’s going on your walls so that we that part is first, because if I was to go with the album first and they go, OK, great, I’ve got 20 images in this album. I’m good at, you know, they put they go, I’ve got 20.

00:39:55:06 – 00:40:19:13

So whatever. So if I start with the wall and do one, two, three, whatever amount of pieces, then going in the album, from there, it’s like they can separate what those two things are in a dream world and this happens a fair amount. People will buy the wall art, but then put that same image in an album, which is always great because when I’m editing it once and selling it twice.

00:40:19:21 – 00:40:41:29

Yeah, super. That’s really smart. I really I love that. I definitely do it the wrong order, which may account for why it owns so many wall pieces as I want, because I definitely got them to do the album first, which is also my number one seller. And then, yeah, it’s so is this super awkward thing. Like, so you want to buy some more stuff

00:40:44:10 – 00:40:47:27

like, no, I’m spending thousands of dollars. I think I’m good.

00:40:48:14 – 00:40:51:10

But if you’re already spending thousands, spend a few thousand.

00:40:54:11 – 00:40:54:26

Yeah.

00:40:55:12 – 00:41:06:24

Yeah, I’m going to say it’s funny that I I don’t think I’ve heard this approach taken by, you know, people within our community of starting off with wall art.

00:41:06:29 – 00:41:10:09

Yeah, neither have I covered. That’s why I’m screwing up over here.

00:41:11:11 – 00:41:27:23

I have to dig a little deeper into our pricing and how we approach things, because yeah, I definitely see how like, hey, let’s get that situated first. And once we do what we feel, every single empty hole in your wall space at home, then we can look into potentially an album, you know?

00:41:28:01 – 00:41:47:15

Yeah, because what I find happens is then they start, you know, then once they get into the album like it’s, it’s easier for them to go. Well, I do like that one. OK, I like that one to keep adding into the album where to keep adding on to the wall is more difficult. So, yeah, yeah,

00:41:48:01 – 00:42:20:27

yeah, that’s I think that’s really like, I’m going to try that because that’s that seems really game-changing to me because for sure, like what happens for me is I can sell the big album, you know what, 30 images or whatever in it. But then they’re like, Well, now I’ve got my 30 images. They’re my favorite images I already have there. So like, why am I going to then add it to the wall? And it’s just such like, so awkward on my end conversation because I kind of feel like they’ve already committed to this big package and I’m trying to push more on them.

00:42:21:03 – 00:42:28:08

And it’s an image they’ve already put in their album. So I really like this like reset of reframing it to wall art first.

00:42:29:00 – 00:42:59:24

You know, this is just kind of an aside of a goofy thing that I do when I’m working, when we’re actually in the shooting space. Creating images is when I shoot something that I love and I see it, you know, and I’ll tell make of that one’s going on the wall. So I plant that seed. And if we’re getting a lot that I know that are going on the wall, this is stupid joke all day long. You know, I get into it’s like, OK, I have a number of a great contractors, so you can build more walls because you’re guaranteed them the way.

00:42:59:29 – 00:43:26:29

But you know, it’s all that seed planning going and going, this is going up. And another thing that I do that helps with my wall sales is I partnered with a framer locally so I can let them know. It’s like, No, if you go to my partner framer, you’re going to get a discount on your framing. And so that helps them, you know, global discounts, great, so that helps them.

00:43:27:14 – 00:43:46:11

Yeah, I was going to ask you about framing and you’ve answered the question because I was going to ask if there was a vendor you used. But so you’re selling these images, matted canvas, like how? How are you delivering them? And then what? How are you educating them on what they have to do next?

00:43:47:00 – 00:44:24:29

So all of my larger prints, I just do standard matte paper mounted dry amounted to either polystyrene or data foam, depending on the size. I use bay photo. Um, so my my framer can dry them out things, but it’s easier for Bay to do it. A lot of times if it’s a larger piece and I know that my client is going to use my framer when the prints come in, I just take them straight to the framer for them. So the last thing I want to do is send them home with their prints, and they’re going to and they go, Yeah, yeah, yeah, we’re going to frame them at some point and then they sit in the closet and they never go up on the wall.

00:44:25:01 – 00:44:33:09

It’s like, you know, your work hanging in your house not only brings you joy, it’s marketing for me when your friends come over and get it on the wall.

00:44:34:24 – 00:44:43:01

So it’s, you know, I have no problem driving things to the framer. And if people need me to pick it up from the framer and get it to their house, I’m happy to do it.

00:44:43:22 – 00:44:49:17

And do you have a hanging service that you provide as well or is done on them?

00:44:50:04 – 00:45:20:00

If people need been told, I will do it. Frankly, it’s I don’t trust other people, so I’ve seen too many bad things happen. So my my family comes from my stepdad’s family owned an interior design store. What we did, we did a lot of hanging portraits in clients homes and we we know a few different tricks and things to keep things from getting crooked or whatever.

00:45:21:10 – 00:45:45:00

And what about you had mentioned lighting the portraits, which, my gosh, so stunning. When people do that, I don’t do that in my studio. Like, I wouldn’t even know where to begin with lighting up the portraits. Like, can you talk a little bit about that process? Do you sell that stuff to your clients? Do you just educate them on where to buy it? Or do they have to get an electrician? Like, how does all that work?

00:45:45:23 – 00:46:22:08

Great question. So as of right now, if it’s a light that is going to mount to the frame like the ones that you see with you, if you see the front of my studio on Instagram or whatever, those are just mounted to the frame with it. And then there’s a cord that runs down the wall. So if we’re doing it that way, I can recommend fixtures to people. And there’s a shop in town that sells some beautiful ones I I keep meaning to, and it’s sitting on my dry erase board next to me to get in touch with the manufacturer and trying to become a retailer myself so I can sell them out of here.

00:46:23:01 – 00:46:57:22

If they’re going to go with those kind of lights, I do recommend that they get an electrician and have a recessed plug put in behind their artwork so that they don’t have a cable hanging down the wall. If it’s a really large piece and depending on the house and if it’s going to be somewhere permanent, then I will recommend in ceiling fixtures to people a lot like what you see in museums where there’s adjustable. Lighting heads on the ceiling where they can light a four piece because I’m really big piece might take two or three lights to fully like this.

00:46:58:00 – 00:47:16:28

OK, wow. Yeah, this is a lot. Yeah, that’s really cool, though. I mean, I think it’s so, so gorgeous. And really, once you make that investment in the portrait, you want to go all the way with it and really show it off and make it look epic.

00:47:17:15 – 00:47:29:23

Absolutely. You know, it’s back to the whole idea. If you treat it like it’s special, it’s special. So if you were just going to throw something in a dark corner and never looked at it, it never brought you joy. Then what’s the point?

00:47:31:00 – 00:47:32:01

Yeah, for sure.

00:47:34:15 – 00:47:35:19

Yeah. Sorry, Kevin. You go

00:47:36:09 – 00:47:58:15

I wanted to ask. You said that you’re planting the seeds of the of having these portraits on the wall during the session. You know, hey, this would really look good here. Are you going to have to build out more walls to to fit everything? Are you? Is that when you’re planting the seed of portraits, you talk about it prior

00:48:00:17 – 00:48:23:18

in the consultation, like, Hey, are you a wall person or is that just completely out of the question? Or are you really potentially selling it to them in the order session? I mean, you shoot me in the reveal you ever print out like a huge wall pretend like, Hey, you know, this would look really nice. And that to be an upsell, possibly.

00:48:24:11 – 00:48:56:18

We we absolutely in the consultation, we absolutely talk about how they plan on enjoying their art, whether they are more, you know, wall art people or, you know, as in a book or what have you. A lot of times, if people say to me there may be something for the wall. I don’t know, then I’ll go ahead and go through the great. I’m going to send you this link so that you can send me your wall so that we can look at things. So it’s. You know, unless they just flat out, tell me, no, I’m never going to hang anything on a wall.

00:48:57:06 – 00:49:13:04

Then then I will find where I will be pre-selling wall art beforehand, you know? And every moment that I’m with them is a closing opportunity. So I try to take those without being

00:49:14:19 – 00:49:35:27

pushy. Or, you know, I know a lot of people are afraid of sounding salesy. So it’s I’m. The old term in the sales industry is, you know, it’s the ABC always be closing. So that’s what I’m doing the entire time. I’m with them so that when we actually do get to the sales room, the sales pretty much done. They just have to figure out which pieces they want.

00:49:36:17 – 00:49:58:04

Yeah, I think that that’s one of those things too that I always say is like a good review. Like really should be kind of fast, easy and a done deal at that point because hopefully they’ve been educated about everything all the way through that it’s just letting the images speak for themselves at that point.

00:49:59:19 – 00:50:16:18

And I feel like that’s what Sue teaches us to do so well, which is like a game changer and such a reminder to like. Always have your system in place, and no matter how many years you’ve been in business, just if things are like not working, go back to the very basics of the system.

00:50:17:20 – 00:50:49:11

Yeah, and things can change. And you know, as I’ve spoken about, when I first started doing portrait sales, I was a reveal wall guy. And, you know, and I was doing OK with it. But for me personally in how I worked, it wasn’t gelling. So I had to shift and adapt. And on my sales system, you know, not that one is better than the others, but that you just have to be. Each salesperson has to figure out what ultimately works for them, and it’s going to be the most profitable.

00:50:49:18 – 00:51:25:12

Yeah. And just to clarify what I meant by like going back to the basics is just going back to the basics of like asking that direct question in the consultation. How do you want your images? How do you want your artwork when this is all said and done? You know, I think people can get really afraid to be that direct in the early stages. And even myself, I’ve been doing this for so long now, but it’s still a reminder to me. It’s like, don’t be afraid to just ask, and if you know things like like with that one woman, maybe like if I look back on it, maybe I didn’t ask her enough in the early.

00:51:25:14 – 00:51:40:09

Like, maybe I thought I did, but maybe I got a little lazy and didn’t like, you know what I mean? So I think it’s just so crucial to to go back and ask all those questions of your client. Like, How do you want your images and be planting those seeds during the photoshoot, like you said.

00:51:41:05 – 00:51:47:09

And I keep forgetting that this is all audio, and I’m sitting over here nodding like, you can all see me like, Oh

00:51:49:26 – 00:51:52:15

yeah, it’s just just audio for now.

00:51:54:26 – 00:52:18:24

Ben I wanted to ask you once you’ve had that consultation and once you determine whether they want wall art, you shoot in a specific manner afterwards to be like, OK, this would be a fantastic look. Is there something specific direction you make your your art go to to really sell it to them and create like a wow piece for them?

00:52:19:11 – 00:52:49:18

If I know there’s like a wall in their space that you know where I go, OK, like this wall is a big landscape orientation piece is going to work there. Then I’ll shoot a few more of those and really try to get a few more wow factor. Or, you know, the old over the fireplace. You know, if it’s like, OK, well, that one is going to have to be portrait orientation. So I do keep those things in mind.

00:52:50:04 – 00:53:19:25

But then I also will try to keep in mind, I’m going, Okay, so in this room, a huge piece may not work, so I may need to try to shoot groupings. And so I do try to keep their house in my brain while I’m working. But at the same time, I don’t let it completely dictate either. It is, you know, because they might move someday. So just because it works on that wall right now, and does it mean it’s going to work, you know, 10 years from now? Hmm.

00:53:20:27 – 00:53:36:07

One question I wanted to ask you, Ben, is for the photographers who want to get into selling more wall art, such as myself. What is the number one crucial piece of advice you would say to start implementing right away?

00:53:36:28 – 00:54:19:07

Show it and keep it, or keep it around where your clients are going to be and and really start normalizing it as much as you possibly can. It’s. If I think we’re in a phase right now in in portraiture where there is still the idea of if I hang any personal things in my home that are big, people are going to think I’m stodgy or vain or people just aren’t comfortable with it right now, the way that they would have been, you know, 100 years ago, 200 years ago, what have you? So I think it becomes our job to normalize it again and go, No, this isn’t strange.

00:54:19:10 – 00:54:53:09

This is this just is, you know, you know, I talk to people a lot too, especially when we’re talking wall art and be like, Look, in 50 years, nobody’s going to go, Hey, did you get Dad’s Instagram account? You know, but they will know that portraits coming with me. You know, I know, like my family, we we have some of my dad’s great great great grandparents painted portraits hanging in my parents’ home now. All those things have survived through generations.

00:54:53:11 – 00:55:10:19

And so I try to show that and I talk about it. But it’s I think the more that we can show it in that it is OK, it’s not strange. It doesn’t make you an oddball to one of those things. The more people will believe us, really, and they’ll start, they’re more likely to buy it.

00:55:11:17 – 00:55:46:10

Yeah, I 100 percent agree. And I have like. Family picture like portrait pictures of people who I actually don’t know who they are, but I do know that they’re somehow related to me because of so many generations ago. And but like, I’m never getting rid of those pictures, you know, because it’s like, who has that many generations of like family portraits? So I still have them, even if I can’t exactly tell the story of who that person was or exactly how I’m related to them.

00:55:46:12 – 00:56:11:15

But I do think it’s such a special heirloom to know that I have like generations on my grandmother’s side of family portraits, and I love the idea that we can communicate that to our clients and remind them that like they can exist for generations too and particularly wall portraits because no one gets rid of a framed print, you know, like, that’s just it’s not going to go in the garbage.

00:56:12:18 – 00:56:18:15

So what have you done like Instagram, you know, Reels or TikToks or anything about those portraits?

00:56:19:08 – 00:56:51:12

I need to do more about wall portraits. I do a lot about albums and folio boxes. This is definitely my comfort zone. But yeah, I need to get those family portraits out in. And honestly, I have them. They aren’t on my wall. We have a tiny Santa Barbara condo that has like windows all along one side, so we truly don’t like. I feel like people say I don’t have wall space like we don’t have to be truly don’t have wall space. And my brother had a lot of pictures here.

00:56:51:24 – 00:56:52:14

So, you

00:56:54:13 – 00:57:07:17

No open floor plan for you actually just cubicles all around your house. But but yeah, so I have them in a closet, which is horrible, but I have them. You’re Ben’s worst nightmare.

00:57:07:28 – 00:57:12:21

I know that’s why they make easels, so you could totally get these.

00:57:14:18 – 00:57:16:08

You know, it’s like there’s ways.

00:57:16:20 – 00:57:52:09

Yeah. So, yeah, so I do need to dig them out and figure out what I’m going to do with them. But they used to be at my grandmother’s house. She had a whole hallway, like a long hallway, and they were on both sides of that hallway, like all up and down. And they’re not huge. They’re probably like mostly around like 11 by 14 size, and some of them are like circles, but it’s very cool. I wish the pencil notes on the back made more sense to me about who the people were so I could cherish that more, but I still cherish knowing that it’s family history.

00:57:52:26 – 00:58:27:04

Absolutely. And in back to the kind of normalizing it once upon a time of having large portraits and. A couple of years ago, it wasn’t uncommon for clients to say to me, you know, Oh, am I going to show up on your Instagram? And now what they say is, am I going to get a space on the wall in your studio? So like even that little shift, like they’re starting to visualize themselves in frames means that it’s it’s starting to work like people are starting to go, OK, I want to be art.

00:58:27:23 – 00:58:44:07

Yes, that’s awesome. That’s fantastic. Or Ben, we have hit the one hour mark and this talk has been an absolute pleasure. And we’re so thankful to have you on? But before we let you go, can you go and share your social media and where people can find you?

00:58:45:01 – 00:59:16:05

Absolutely. On Instagram, I am at Ben Marcum Photo on Tik Tok. I think I’m just at Ben Marcum and I’m doing Tik Tok experiments right now, like I’m really getting into it. So because, well, we all know what’s happening with matter. So unsurprisingly, I’ve been booking clients off of Tik Tok, but that’s a whole other conversation. Yeah. So those are the places I’m most active right now. My website is just BenMarcum.Com.

00:59:16:07 – 00:59:54:14

Everyone, please, please, please be sure to go follow Ben and make sure to follow the portrait system on Instagram and on Facebook as well. Also, be sure to check out the blog posts that are associated with our Clubhouse interviews at SueBryceEducation.com/blog. You can follow Ashleigh on Instagram at Ashleigh Taylor Portrait. That is ASHLEIGH and you can find me there as PopLight_photography. If you are a member of the portrait system and you have a question for Ben, Ashleigh or myself, please go tag us at The Portrait System Members Only Facebook Group.

00:59:55:11 – 01:00:08:16

If you are not a member of Sue Bryce Education, and you are interested in learning more about how we can help you and your business succeed, reach out to our support team at support@SueBryceEducation.com.

Thank you again for joining us and we hope you can join us next week.

Thanks again for listening today. And don’t forget, you can listen to either me or our special guests every Friday on Club House at 11:00 a.m. Pacific. Thank you so much for listening to the Portrait System Podcast. Your five-star reviews really help us to continue what we do. So, if you like listening, would you mind giving us a review wherever you listen? I also encourage you to head over to SueBryceEducation.com, where you can find all of the education you need to be a successful photographer. There are over 1,000 on-demand educational videos on things like posing, lighting, styling, retouching, shooting, marketing, sales, business, and self-value

There’s also the 90 Day Startup Challenge, plus so many downloads showing hundreds of different poses. We have to-do checklists for your business, lighting PDFs, I mean truly everything to help make you a better photographer and to make you more money. Once again, that’s SueBryceEducation.com.