Community Fuels Business with Rashmi Gill

March 7, 2022 Artist Spotlight

Clubhouse Conversation: Rashmi Gill

“Community fuels our soul, and fuels our business,” says Rashmi. Hear about the important communities in Rashmi’s life — The Portrait System, her networking groups, and her clients who also become fast friends.

In the latest episode of the Portrait System Podcast: Clubhouse Edition, Kevin Conde and Ashleigh Taylor chat with Rashmi Gill, a New-York-City-based personal branding photographer, who primarily shoots outdoors.

Rashmi has been involved in The Portrait System community since the very first 90-Day Challenge back when it was called the 12-Week Startup. As the host of the 90-Day Challenge, Kevin was keen to ask Rashmi what she has gotten out of the program and what keeps her coming back year after year to do it again. Rashmi shares that what she loves the most is the community, where you can share all the wild and varied emotions that come along with creating your own business from the ground up, as well as share real, practical advice for making it work. Her greatest takeaway from doing the Challenge is that it gave her the confidence to know her worth as a photographer and know how to ask for it.

Rashmi also shares a lot about her New York City business. Be sure to listen to the whole podcast to hear how with clients as varied as realtors, life coaches, makeup artists, lawyers, and comedians, Rashmi stays true to her brand by offering her clients the photos that best represent them personally. She feels so strongly in the Sue Bryce maxim that networking is all about relationship building, and you won’t want to miss hearing how she stays in touch with her clients — even sometimes ringing them up just to say that she’s been thinking about them and wonders how they’re doing.

Ashleigh points out that in this modern age, we often forget about the importance of keeping in touch. The once-common practice of having a rolodex full of past clients and contacts to flip through has fallen to the wayside, but we can have a digital rolodex. Also, showing support to our Instagram contacts can be another great way to nurture relationships.

Some other points of interest in the conversation include how Rashmi kept her business active during Covid restrictions by thinking outside of the box by offering services to people in her networking group at deep discounts and by barter. She also shares some hot tips for shooting out-of-doors in New York, including location ideas and adding on fees for taxi cabs.

Here are links to some things mentioned in this conversation:

In this blog, you’ll find some of Rashmi’s beautiful portraits, links to her websites, and answers to some bonus questions.

Join us live every Friday for Clubhouse conversations and get answers to your questions! Just search “The Portrait System” in the Clubhouse App and follow us there.

Get to Know Artist Name

Q: When did you first come across Sue Bryce Education, and how has it affected your career?

A: I came across Sue during her CreativeLive days. When I moved to NYC in 2015, I went to the photo show that is held annually in NYC with the intention to meet Sue and ask her if I could book a shoot for my 40th birthday. It was such a special moment for me when I met her. I remember taking my then 2-year-old daughter with me. I love introducing Maya to strong, independent women working hard to make something for themself, and I remember saying to Sue, “If you ever need a little girl for shoots, too, let me know, especially as Maya has the most beautiful long hair.” Sue simply said, “No. I will stick to grown ups.” 😉 She told me that she wasn’t taking new shoots but would take my details so I could model for her students at an upcoming NYC Seminar she was hosting.

Attending the NYC seminar as a “model” for the students really was a unique experience. Not only did I experience what it was like in front of the camera, but I got to hear Sue speak to her students. I was so engrossed in what Sue was saying that she asked me if I wanted to attend the second day, which was mindset and business related. That’s when my life and business mind changed. I got to also meet the incredibly-supportive SBE community, including Gerson who was a student at the seminar. This community is the best photography community I have been a member of as it is non-judgmental and always available and willing to help.

Q: When first starting out, many photographers hit roadblocks on their journey to start their business, whether they feel their equipment isn’t good enough or need a studio to start a business. What roadblocks did you encounter, and how did you get over them?

A: My main road block was myself! I was my own worst critic. Everything had to be perfect, and I had severe imposter syndrome. I had attended numerous other conferences, training sessions, and mentorships, which helped with the technical side of things, but never the mindset. After hearing Sue at the NYC seminar, and then joining SBE, and then attending the first 12-week graduation, my business and I were never the same.

Q: How do you feel about your current work/life balance?

A: Ermmmm. That could still do with some adjusting, but I am better. Owning your own business is not easy, and your mind is always working. But now that I have children, I realize even more how precious my time is, so I am conscious about having time limits and days off. Working less for more is something I am doing more and more of.

Q: What (beyond money) has owning a business given you?

A: Independence. Something to grow. A way to be an example to my children that anything is possible if you work hard, work with your heart and with passion, and don’t give up.

Q: What is your favorite advice that you’ve been given along your journey that has helped you the most?

A: Give with open arms; receive with open arms.

Don’t take no for an answer.


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Rashmi Gill

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Transcript

Click Here to Read the Podcast Transcript

FULL TRANSCRIPT: Please note this transcript was generated by AI and may contain errors.

 

00:00:01:04 – 00:00:26:11

This is the Portrait System podcast, a show that helps portrait photographers and people hoping to become one. Navigate the world of photography, business, money and so much more. We totally keep it real. We share stories about the incredible ups and the very difficult downs when running a photography business. I’m your host, Nikki Closser, and the point of this podcast is for you to learn actionable steps that you can take to grow your own business and also to feel inspired and empowered by the stories you hear.

00:00:27:18 – 00:01:07:03

Hey, everyone, this is Kevin Conde, and I’m excited to introduce you to this week’s guest. During this week’s Clubhouse edition of the podcast, Ashleigh Taylor and I got the opportunity to sit down and chat with Rashmi Gill, a lifestyle branding and portrait photographer based out of New York City. During our chat, we discussed how she moved to New York from London in 2015 and had to start her business over from scratch. We also talked about how she networked with her community to grow her business. The evolution of her pricing for personal branding and how she managed to keep working in New York City as it experienced surges of COVID 19 that shut the city down through 2020.

00:01:07:19 – 00:01:39:13

It was great to hear her story, and we’re excited to share this episode with you. So sit back and relax, and let’s get started with Rashmi Gill. Welcome everyone to the Portrait System podcast Clubhouse Edition. My name is Kevin Conde and I’m here with my co-host Ashleigh Taylor. If you are not familiar with The Portrait System, we are a portrait photography podcast that is powered by Sue Bryce Education. Nikki Closser hosts our Monday episodes, and Ashleigh and I co-host our Clubhouse Edition, which is live here on the Clubhouse app every Friday at Noon Pacific, and then our episodes are released on Thursdays.

00:01:40:00 – 00:01:45:21

You can tune in on your favorite podcast app by searching for The Portrait System. Ashleigh, how are you today?

00:01:46:08 – 00:01:55:02

I’m great, Kevin, and I’m so excited to be here co-hosting once again and introduce our guest Rashmi Gill. Welcome, Rashmi.

00:01:55:27 – 00:02:01:17

Hi, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So, so so, so good to be here. Thank you for having me.

00:02:01:27 – 00:02:41:08

So you have been part of the portrait system community for a while now. You took part in the original 90 day startup group back when you were 12 weeks startup. Yeah. OG. So considering that the podcast isn’t the only thing I do, I also lead the 90 day challenge, which starts back up March 7th. Everyone, I’m I’m super interested in hearing your experience with the program. So for those who are new to the program in the portrait system community, can you tell me a bit about what you’ve been able to get out of going through the 90 day challenge and how the information has helped your business?

00:02:41:24 – 00:02:44:24

Oh my goodness, and we only have half an hour to do that. Oh boy.

00:02:46:24 – 00:03:23:04

In a nutshell, good. What can I say in a nutshell? The program has built me in so many ways. I’m just going to backtrack a little bit. I have been a photographer many years now, but I would always be looking for not just the technical abilities, which is always an ongoing thing, but the side that I needed more help with, which is the business, the self work and then the real community community that isn’t just going to say or other community who actually genuinely going to help you.

00:03:23:22 – 00:04:00:03

And when I found the Sue Bryce community, it was like angels singing in my head. It was everything I wanted and more. And then the program itself, the fact that it allowed you to take a couple of things, you could do it in your own time. It gave you real, accountable steps, which for me, accountability was really helpful. And also, you had this group of people with you at that time going through the things that you’re going through at the same time.

00:04:00:05 – 00:04:31:09

So you were able to laugh, cry, scream, shout, share like everything and then some. And if it wasn’t for that, I don’t think I would have been able to take that next step up to make my business a real, sustainable business. And don’t get me wrong, I’m still working on so many things, but I think the biggest thing it helped me with was my imposter syndrome syndrome and my am I worth it or not syndrome.

00:04:32:03 – 00:04:40:27

For the first time in my life, I was able to say, Yes, I’m worth it and charge the prices that every photographer should be able to charge for their their work.

00:04:41:19 – 00:05:15:22

Let me ask you something I know you mentioned to us privately that you know your parents were a bit, I guess skeptical may be the right word when you were leaving being a lawyer, which was kind of, you know, the type of job they wanted you to have, that they feel safe and decided to go into photography. So did having that community help at all with some of the mindset stuff that I would imagine has to happen when you have to brave up kind of going to your family and doing the thing they don’t want you to do?

00:05:16:05 – 00:05:47:09

Yeah, I mean, absolutely. That whole mindset is so important in my mind. Having done it upon having done it, I realize even more how important it is, and I think it showed to my parents that this was going to be a sustainable thing. Now again, just to give a bit of background, as you mentioned, they were first generation immigrants. They came from Kenya and India to England, and they worked really, really, really hard to make a life for myself, my brothers.

00:05:47:17 – 00:06:22:05

So in their mind, they wanted me to become a professional, dare I say it? And a professional in those times was either a doctor, lawyer, dentist and coming from an Indian community. Anyone who’s Southeast Asian or otherwise from those kind of cultures will know that a professional job, as seen by the sort of parents was the only job. And so when I realized my passion in law wasn’t there anymore. And photography overtook that passion, and I started building it into a business.

00:06:22:17 – 00:06:47:22

The mindset work help me show them how well I could be as a business, but more importantly, that I can be financially independent and that’s all they ever wanted me to be financially independent, no matter what. And as soon as I could see that they were my biggest, biggest advocates, they would get my card out to people. They would proudly say, my daughter is a photographer and has her own business, and that to me, means everything.

00:06:48:13 – 00:06:49:09

I love that.

00:06:51:07 – 00:07:14:16

That obviously doesn’t happen right off the bat to be successful, to be moving forward. How do you did you have to one, did you have to deal with criticism from your parents, as you said, you know that culture wants you to doctor, dentist, lawyer. What about friends? Are they criticizing you? Like saying, What are you doing? Or did you have all that support

00:07:14:27 – 00:07:51:28

Yeah, my parents are so supportive. I mean, they are visiting now from London, and they’re finally after two years, we finally got to see them. And they are my biggest advocate, my best friends. They’re everything to me. So they are amazing. Other people, though, yes, if I say to people, I’m a photographer, they think, Oh, she’s just a hobbyist with a camera who likes to take pretty pictures and. But then when I start really explaining what I do, they actually sit up and this one I had.

00:07:52:23 – 00:08:07:21

And it’s a shame that that’s the case, that it shouldn’t have to be the case, that I have to explain what I do if I carried on saying I was a lawyer. People would sit with that solidly. Yeah, exactly. So

00:08:09:08 – 00:08:17:25

I find things are changing somewhat because, you know, jobs and the job sector is so different and the opportunities are so different.

00:08:19:12 – 00:08:47:11

But it does take time. And I think as a community, if we are able to show that we are just as good as any lawyer, doctor, dentist or professional means any of us as well. What we do is a is a service that every day you will see is needed. Any time you open your computer, go into social media, go onto the news, what do you see photographs? Who’s taken them photographers? What would you do without these photographers?

00:08:48:05 – 00:09:28:12

I love that. That puts it into a whole new perspective that I haven’t really heard phrase before, like how prevalent photography is in our lives. And of course, professional photographers are the ones making that possible. So I love that insight. And what I wanted to say is like, You see you transition from a lawyer to what your specialty is right now is personal branding or one of your specialties. I would imagine that that would be kind of easy connection in the sense that, well, you have this whole network and database of professionals who might be needing pictures.

00:09:28:14 – 00:09:39:16

Can you talk a little bit about how you or if you have tapped into your older, your network from your past career to launch your personal brand business?

00:09:40:00 – 00:10:44:16

Absolutely. I’d love to. I just I can give a little bit of a background if that helps. When I transitioned into becoming a photographer many years ago, I did what a lot of people did. I tried everything. Weddings, events, people, children, babies, you name it. I realized very fast. I didn’t want to our sort of family.

00:10:45:08 – 00:11:13:02

I slowly started socializing because we have no friends, no family here. And we I built a community outside of photography and slowly became quite sort of well known within that social circle and various from various avenues that I’ve been able to network. And so the clients I’ve got.

00:11:15:07 – 00:11:16:05

Very

00:11:17:28 – 00:11:48:25

connected to that. I am part of a couple of women networking groups I’m and it’s interesting when I look back at the more recent journey. A lot of my clients have been women, some who are starting a business, some who have started a business and acquire, established and just realize they need a lot more imagery or updated imagery, imagery, everything from, dare I say it, lawyers to.

00:11:50:21 – 00:11:53:11

I was going to say estate agents, but here it’s called realitors

00:11:55:22 – 00:12:26:26

life coaches, makeup artist, comedians, corporate, everything. And what I really have realized is I love creating brands and I love creating shoots, and I love clients that I can work closely with to create a shoot for them. So I try it when I do my previous shoot consultation, we really sit down and work out what it is that their brand is.

00:12:27:09 – 00:13:05:21

Who is it? Who? Who are they? What is it that they want to portray from these photos? And then we really break it down, and I often say to my clients, to be totally honest with you. Preparation is key. So on the shoot date itself, everything, I have a shot list. I have a list of what they’re going to wear, what they have to bring, where we’re going to shoot it. Everything is laid out. So it’s so easy. And more importantly, fun. I want them to have fun on the shoot because as you can imagine, a lot of people are always nervous and it’s just happened very organically that way that it’s a lot of women that I’ve I’ve found to be my clients.

00:13:06:27 – 00:13:41:02

So with that, and it seems like you have such a diverse type of clientele, like you said, everything from professionals to comedians makes total sense being that you’re. I mean, but it makes total sense being that you’re in New York City. So how do you like how do you keep it cohesive because you’re obviously marketing to, you know, like I said, there is a pretty big difference being a realtor and a comedian, I guess. So how do you keep your like messaging consistent for all those different types of businesses?

00:13:41:24 – 00:14:16:18

So my messaging is simply that I am a personal branding photographer and I take photos that best represent you. It’s as simple as that. And then the work and the work that’s been done around that is sort of sitting down and really breaking it down. And I have clients who say, Oh yeah, I just want to wear five outfits and do a few shots outside. And that’s okay. Where do you want to do it? What does it mean doing it there? What are you going to wear and what? How does that represent what you who you are in that location?

00:14:18:13 – 00:14:51:29

I even talk to them about their brand colors. How can we incorporate those in the photographs? And slowly people think, realize actually it’s not as easy as just turning up. And I have the camera and we take pretty pictures. There’s a lot more involved and they actually appreciate having that time to discuss and create this shoot for them. Others, I have people who have a team of graphic designers or web designers who already have the vision, and then I work with them and we create the shoot.

00:14:52:06 – 00:15:02:16

But it simply is. What are these photos going to say about you? What is it that you want to want them to say about you? And what is the best way of creating those pictures?

00:15:04:06 – 00:15:07:21

I was going to say with so much diverse.

00:15:09:14 – 00:15:41:12

Professions in front of you, a lot of people, when they’re doing personal branding, will stick to a specific niche because they’ll know about the expertise or have a deeper knowledge of the profession. Do you feel like just having a baseline knowledge of what they do, for instance, a comedian versus, say, a lawyer? Does that expertise of knowledge of their profession not have to go that deep? Or how does that work for you?

00:15:42:18 – 00:16:02:14

Interesting question. I think the way that that’s worked with me is I get to know the person, and through doing that, I get to understand what they do. And by understanding what they do, I get a better understanding of how they need to be represented unless they already have a visual of that.

00:16:04:01 – 00:16:36:20

So I think it goes hand in hand somewhat. I had one of my the life coach client that I recently had. She it was really interesting. Her husband is well-connected and has lots of photographers that he knows that could have easily done her shoot. She found me on Instagram, started following me and then finally reached out and said, I don’t know what it is, but there’s something about you that I want you to do. My photos, I was like, Amazing, thank you so much for that honor.

00:16:36:29 – 00:17:13:10

And when we started doing the pre-consult shoot, she already had some vision board photos, which I always put together as well. And she when the shoot was done, she was like, Oh my gosh, this is exactly what I wanted, if not better. And it wasn’t just down to me. It was also her because I always say to clients, You need to tell me what it is that you really want. And more importantly, what you don’t want. So I can make sure that these images are going to be ultimately the ones that you’re going to use for your business or your whatever the purpose might be.

00:17:15:15 – 00:17:39:09

I love that she found you on Instagram of all places because, you know, I’m a big proponent of Instagram marketing, and I think it just goes to show that like, you know, people sometimes just lurk on your Instagram and watch you for a while, and it’s just that consistent, like putting out there what you do and what you how you can help people and you never know, like who’s watching, who’s going to see you.

00:17:40:28 – 00:18:12:03

And one thing that’s, you know, to me so unique about your personal brand photography is that it’s outdoors in New York City, of course, one of the most iconic cities in the world with so many amazing locations. And yet like we’ve talked to you, Kevin and I have interviewed a lot of personal brand photographers here on Clubhouse. And most people, you know, shoot kind of, I guess, what you might call Sue Bryce glamour style in studio, that kind of thing.

00:18:12:10 – 00:18:33:05

So how does doing it outdoors change things just from even from like a logistical perspective? Because I would imagine weather factors in in New York, you may have to deal with location permits and things that are off limits, like how does doing this business outdoors change things?

00:18:34:03 – 00:19:06:12

It changes a lot. So I do now have a small room in our apartment that I use as a studio. Oh, cool. So I’m lucky to have that. So I have had shoots there and then we have a very, very small rooftop. But I can also use and have used. But the outdoor shooting really works because every the realtor shoot that I did, we had her walking in the streets we had. She told me that she wanted certain types of shots.

00:19:06:14 – 00:19:40:15

She said I normally change my shoes and put on my high heels just as about as I’m about to do a viewing. So it even did a shot of her putting on shoes and those shoes happened to be similar colors to what she has in her brand and, you know, even having the coffee in the street. I had someone who is a finance person who wanted to also show that she likes to keep fit, so we had her running in the park. I’m lucky enough to be in Chelsea, in New York City, so I’m not far from the Flatiron building and those epic views of Empire State.

00:19:41:10 – 00:20:14:21

So, of course, a lot of people want photos there. I’ve made connections with people on rooftops, so I’m able to go to some epic views as long as the weather is right. But the weather is the one which can, you know, that’s something you can’t control. So we always have a backup. So I always say, Listen, of course, this is weather permitting. We look at the season just to get a better idea. We think about even from the foliage on the tree is, you know, is that going to impact the photos? So there’s a lot of thinking that has to be done, but in my head, it’s quite natural to think that way.

00:20:14:23 – 00:20:38:06

My mind is weird like that. I think about all these extra things that clients may not have thought about. So even if that means pushing the shoot a little bit into the spring or summer, at least, then we’ve thought about it because I don’t want them to come back and say, Oh, but it was autumn and there’s no leaves on the trees, and I can’t use that now. So it’s important that we get it right. So.

00:20:38:24 – 00:20:40:00

Oh, sorry, Kevin, you go.

00:20:40:29 – 00:20:56:26

So is the fact that you are in New York and there’s just so much the, you know, skyline parks just so much to see. Oh, main reason for shooting outdoors or is the car, you know, I bet it’s expensive to rent there.

00:20:57:12 – 00:21:39:11

Yeah. So I um, it’s interesting. When I was, we moved more over the last few years and the apartment we were renting at that time had the most epic views of New York City, and I did a lot of shoots up there. I used to convert. My living room is the dining table and do shoots sort of almost on a white wall and and put backdrops off if needed. But I I worked with what I had and I hustled like crazy, but I found that working outside I really enjoy because it made for me every shoot interesting.

00:21:39:23 – 00:22:15:21

From a financial perspective, though, I realized I’m doing a lot more work. So this year, with the help with out of a lot of Sue Bryce members, I said, I want to raise my prices. How is everyone doing it? And one of the things I did is I added a location fee. So I have a half day location fee and a full day location fee. And then I also say, you know, if there’s any expenses such as renting as beg your pardon using a taxi somewhere that the client pays for that if we’re going from a couple of different locations a bit further away.

00:22:16:03 – 00:22:24:08

So I’ve managed to package that in terms of expenses and finances. And of course, I’ve upped my prices a bit.

00:22:25:03 – 00:22:45:21

Do you mind sharing your prices and packaging? Because I think with personal branding, you know, it runs a big gamut and, you know, sometimes people get really tripped up. Do I give them 100 images? Do I give them six images or like, what do I do? And there really isn’t a right answer, but I would love to know how you do it.

00:22:45:29 – 00:23:18:10

Yeah, I mean, I trust me, I have. I have gone around the houses with this one, and initially I started with the original Sue Bryce pricing. But now my collection start from five up to 100 or 500. But basically go up by a thousand. So five images. Digital images are eleven fifty one thousand one hundred and fifty dollars, and then it goes up by 10 images, or two thousand one hundred fifty two images, three thousand one hundred fifty.

00:23:18:12 – 00:23:57:01

And there on so forth. And my location fee half a day, which is I count of three hours, is 350 full day, which I count six hours and 650. Now I I feel like that might still be too low, but that’s where I’m comfortable right now and I’ve started people have booked me in for. But I mean, I’ve I’ve had a few people booking me in for the collection, 10 and 20. I have someone who’s looking at the 30 already. I think what I’m planning to do is I’ll either be every year I’m going to increase my prices and just bite the bullet and do it.

00:23:57:03 – 00:24:27:17

I what I’ve realized I want to do, and I think I’ve realized this a long time ago, do less. For more, my time with my family is super important. I want to make the money, but I also want to spend the time with my kids. I had the baby over the COVID and lockdown, so oh wow. Growing so fast and I’m losing that time. So time to me is so important. I love what I do, but I love my my people as well. So it’s finding that right balance, right?

00:24:27:29 – 00:25:05:01

When you said to like five images is where it starts with the first thing I thought was, Oh my gosh, we’re shooting outdoors and you’re shooting for maybe like you said, an on location fee for half day is three hours. Like, how could they just use five images? I know when I shoot outdoors, I actually get way more images than in studio, I feel like only because like, there’s just so much going on outside. And I think there’s just so many ways to make variety happen. So do you find a lot of people like wanting just five images or are you getting Oh, yeah, but that’s

00:25:06:20 – 00:25:07:05

No

00:25:08:17 – 00:25:09:02

That’s the whole point.

00:25:09:04 – 00:25:24:21

You give them this, but then they want a lot more. Yeah, but the whole frame, I mean, a lot of the people who put the five images are sometimes even 10 come to the studio and they know like they want their headshots or whatever the case might be.

00:25:26:15 – 00:25:41:07

And if they appear to use that, the rest of my apartment, there’s corners that I use, there’s walls that I’ve used. So it looks like a location studio, but it’s not. But it’s still within the parameters of my

00:25:42:25 – 00:25:51:29

studio, so I haven’t had to quote unquote travel anywhere. But that’s the whole point. You know, if they want five and they still want to go outside like in secretly in my head.

00:25:54:06 – 00:25:56:02

Good luck choosing five images.

00:25:56:04 – 00:26:18:07

Yeah, so you’re so I’m guessing you’re often selling like a much bigger package to the people who are outdoors. OK. That’s what I just wanted to clarify, because like it just yeah, it seems like for all that work of going outside, you’d want people to even maybe pre commit to a minimum of like 30 images, but you’re saying you don’t have them pre commit, you just, No.

00:26:18:15 – 00:26:50:02

I mean, I kind of do what I think I would like. So one of the things I don’t like is when people sell to me. Mm hmm. And so I don’t sell to people. When people ask me what I do, I tell them, but I don’t give them my card and I don’t really do the whole beach. I organically tell them what I do, and then we come back. But then if they then think about photographer, hopefully I’m in their mind. But we tend to keep connecting.

00:26:50:04 – 00:27:05:04

And like you said with Instagram, once they start following you, they start realizing what you’re doing. And before you know it, they’re a client of yours. And a lot of people I’ve met that way have become clients and then friends. So I love when it happens organically.

00:27:05:18 – 00:27:36:27

Yes, I love that you just said that too, because that’s something I always tell people about. Instagram is like, Sure, it’s great to get like a magical person that you didn’t know existed randomly. Follow you on Instagram and turn into a client, but use your warm network like when you go to a networking event. Tell people like, Hey, I’d love to follow you on Instagram and then you follow them and then you know you be their cheerleader. Eventually they’ll reciprocate.

00:27:36:29 – 00:27:57:13

Then they see the drip, drip drip of like your amazing experience and then they want to do it like it doesn’t like. Sometimes I think people feel like Instagram has to be this super magical thing where people discover you via a hashtag, and it can really be so much more powerful when you use it with your warm network, with people that you’ve met in real life.

00:27:58:11 – 00:28:00:00

So true. So true.

00:28:00:15 – 00:28:16:03

So I wanted to ask you, how do you incorporate or do you incorporate ideas like the product shots or flat lives for a business when they come to you? Is that you replace those or is that an add on cost? How does that work for you?

00:28:16:22 – 00:28:48:17

Yeah, I I used to do product photography. I used to do for a in England. I did shoots on a regular basis for a luxury then and brand which had a store, but it wasn’t so much lay flat. So it was sort of in store or we’d we’d stage some stuff. But to be honest, I and I do what I’m good at and I do what I enjoy, just like weddings. It wasn’t my thing. I won’t do lay flat. I’ll refer people to people who do that.

00:28:49:10 – 00:29:12:08

I will incorporate products into a shoot if it makes sense. And of course, I will get those shots of a product for a client in a in a sort of a setting that makes sense. But I I’m I realize I just need to focus on what I’m good at and what I enjoy and let everyone else do what they’re good at, what they enjoy.

00:29:14:00 – 00:29:20:25

No, I make it do what you love as you said, you know, or else the product at the end of the day isn’t going to be what you want it to be.

00:29:21:12 – 00:29:22:06

Exactly.

00:29:22:24 – 00:29:41:21

Rashmi, I also want to ask you because I was, you know, doing a lot of research on you online and you had like an article written about you. And it said in the article that you do a lot of work for Madison Square Garden. So I was like, Whoa, that sounds fancy and cool. Well, could you tell us a little bit about that?

00:29:42:17 – 00:29:46:24

Yeah. At Madison Square Park. So, oh,

00:29:48:28 – 00:29:50:17

I see a whole different thing.

00:29:50:19 – 00:29:53:24

Oh, I was going to say I was like, Dang,

00:29:55:13 – 00:30:00:04

I am hanging with the people in the garden. I mean, but I mean,

00:30:01:20 – 00:30:39:12

jokes aside, Madison Square Park, it has been a huge part of that community I initially spoke about. Didn’t live too far from it when we first moved here and having had a one year old at the time and being from England, where you have lots of green space and the garden in your backyard, we needed green space and we used to go there. I used to go there every day with my daughter and it became a place where I met. A lot of people from around the vicinity who lived there, worked there, just visited and it became a huge part of my day to day life.

00:30:39:14 – 00:31:11:24

And I call all my community, my New York family. I then. Long story short, I was so I fell in love with the park so much. The There’s a Madison Square Park Conservancy that runs the park, and not many people realize this, but their park is run by the conservancy, and 100 percent of the money that they raise goes into supporting that park and making it the green oasis that it is. And so I said I would love to help and support because you’ve given me so much, I’d love to give something back.

00:31:12:19 – 00:31:44:27

I became I am now am the co-chair of their associate board. Oh, nice. I also was asked to do to their official photos, so a lot of the photos that you’ll see on their website are taken by me. And it’s interesting because there are pictures of the park. So it was something that took me away from my portrait photography, but I loved it because I love the park, so it comes back to doing what I love. And then they asked me to do photos every so often every year or six months.

00:31:44:29 – 00:32:27:22

They have a new art installation, so Maya Lynn was the last one for you. Hayden is the recent one, the last me to do photos of the installation and sometimes of the artist. So again, in the back of my mind is still networking, getting to know people and getting my name out there. I was fortunate enough to have one of my photos a few year ago posted a printed actually in the New York Times, and for me, that was a huge moment. And you know, there’s a lot to be said about creating communities outside of photography which fuel your soul, but also fuel your business because it is about business at the end of the day.

00:32:28:11 – 00:33:09:25

Yeah, I love that you brought this up because it reminds me of an interview that Kevin and I did with Christine Logan, and she was on the board or is still on the board for the ballet in her city, which I believe is Fort Wayne, Indiana might be wrong about that. But she said that being on the board of the ballet like was just huge for her business because of the connections that she made with the other board members. Because people who tend to do philanthropy like that tend to be, I guess, people with disposable income and people who are prominent in the business community.

00:33:09:27 – 00:33:14:07

So have you found like connections like that also have come through the air?

00:33:15:09 – 00:33:47:04

Yeah, I am all about making connections and the senior board, the associate board there, the people who use the park just generally walking around. I’ve been stopped in the park with my camera and asked for my card on several occasions, and I’ll happily give it a sort of reach out to them if I have theirs. It’s been such a powerful way of building that network of clients and you know, some work out, some don’t.

00:33:47:06 – 00:33:48:19

But that’s the nature of the game.

00:33:49:02 – 00:34:06:09

I love that, that it just goes to show that marketing can be so much more than just, you know, like going to a standard networking event or like making a post on Instagram. It’s really just about how can you be involved in your community and build relationships?

00:34:07:02 – 00:34:32:21

What is it that Sue says about having your taps open everywhere? That’s how I feel about the networking. You know, you have to sort of have it happening all over the place. And so the that tap into those communities, you call them faucets, here, right? Yes. Yes, different parts of what we call them in England. I still say the English lingo, and every now and then I have to stop and

00:34:34:07 – 00:34:46:15

say, but yeah, so I look at I don’t go into a situation thinking, Okay, I’m going to use this as a way of building my business. But in the back of my mind, it’s always there.

00:34:47:11 – 00:35:23:27

I love that I wanted to pivot for a second and talk about COVID and the pandemic. Just because I know you’re in New York City on the news. For the last two years, it seems like multiple times New York City has been one of the hardest hit places with lots of closures. And I’m wondering. How, you know, as a business owner, you navigated that because, you know, I think how we navigate the struggles is such an important lesson for anyone because we never really know what the future is going to hold.

00:35:23:29 – 00:35:30:07

So how has the pandemic affected your business and how were you able to navigate that?

00:35:30:16 – 00:35:49:19

So it was hard, of course, can’t do any photo shooting, so I couldn’t do any portrait sessions. And then on top of that, I was pregnant with my first. I was shooting all the way through my pregnancy up until literally giving birth and then a week after giving birth. Oh my gosh,

00:35:49:21 – 00:35:50:27

I can’t imagine

00:35:51:12 – 00:36:25:05

it was just crazy. I mean, the fact that I had to sit down and not do anything was a big deal for me. And then I am an older mother, dare I say it in my 40s? So my body was not what it is, not what it used to be. So physically, I realized it gave me a chance to sort of sit and be in myself and just kind of take hold of what’s happening right now. But what I did do is I pivoted somewhat by using again the communities that I’m part of, a lot of the women’s community that I’m a part of.

00:36:25:26 – 00:36:56:17

And I I started asking people, So Kevin, you say, sort of made up some things I did. I did product photography. I even did a photo shoot for a woman who has this amazing maternity bra, and I modeled it. I shot it. I had my daughter in it and I did what I had to do. I. So I just reached out to all these businesses and I said, I know right now we can’t.

00:36:56:24 – 00:37:28:29

I’m sure you all need photos as well, especially as everything going online and everything from Zoom and and whatnot. But you know, how can I help? And there were times where I knew others were struggling, so we did that. We bartered somewhat well. I gave a I didn’t charge my full price, but I was okay with that because for me, supporting others is just as important as them supporting me and my business. And I believe in karma. That’s what goes around, comes around. So it was it was tough.

00:37:29:01 – 00:38:00:26

I’m not going to lie, but I use that time to really take stock of what I wanted to do as soon as we were out of it. And you know what? New York was strong. We were we knuckled in and stayed indoors, and I remember the first time going out Don’t touch anything, don’t touch anything to you. Start looking at the side of that person coming across the street. It was crazy, but you know, we were we were okay. I think people just did what they had to do, and we’re now hopefully on the other side

00:38:01:26 – 00:38:26:03

with what was going on in New York. I remember following other photographers and yes, people were staying inside, as you say, people crossing the street. But I remember seeing videos of at nighttime people just singing outside of their their windows and just trying to keep it, you know, together in such a difficult time.

00:39:12:21 – 00:39:24:21

daughter would stand there banging on her pan? It was actually quite a way, a nice way of unifying everyone again and saying, You know, we’re all here, we’re all together. We’ll be okay.

00:39:26:13 – 00:39:46:00

But it was a tough time. I won’t lie. But one of the things people, those of you who know me, I am very much a positive person and that a glass is always half full that they will make the best out of any situation. Give it to me. And even with the pandemic, I did that myself. So yeah, I’m glad we’re out of it.

00:39:47:19 – 00:40:06:04

Oh my god. I do want to bring up something where you say you. I want to hear a little bit of how you navigated the reaching out to two different companies. Was it a situation where you just basically went down a list of like people you follow on Instagram or you’re reaching out and saying, Hey, I offer my services?

00:40:07:03 – 00:40:40:03

So it’s interesting, to say this Kevin, because I’m looking at what I can do to up my marketing game for this year. I’m a solpreneur by myself. I don’t have anyone else going out there getting work for me. The only thing I outsource the finance and editing, and there’s a couple of things in my mind and I’d love to see if anyone has any ideas that they’ve they’ve done or looking at. But I’m looking I was thinking about whether or not I hire someone who goes out and gets me work, and then they get either a commission or a referral fee or something like that.

00:40:40:26 – 00:41:23:26

But the way that I’ve done it so far again, it comes back to networks. I, one of the networks that I’m a part of, has now two of them have emails or sort of a database where people make requests. And I’m always just looking at what those headlines are and they’re looking for a photographer or not. And I’m constantly saying, Hey, I’m a photographer, I can help. And then, but now I’ve also expanded that when I’ve, I’d be contacting graphic designers and web designers and saying, Hey, you know, do you have photographers that use and let’s chat? And that’s actually been a really interesting way of getting clients.

00:41:25:13 – 00:41:50:00

And one of the client, the comedian, in fact, the way I managed to book her was actually through women’s network, where someone was making the website for the comedian, came across my work and asked me to do the photo shoot, and we have the best time doing this entire shoot. And she’s now blowing it up right now is in Las Vegas, which is incredible. And

00:41:51:23 – 00:42:27:05

you know, it’s it’s been a different way of getting those clients every now and then. In fact, during the pandemic, I did check in with a lot of my clients just to see genuinely how they are doing, and that also then reminds them that I’m still around. So every now and then, I’ll do a check in with people every now and then I’ll just I won’t necessarily cold call, but I’ll make sure there’s some kind of a connection where I’m able to speak to them or reach out. I went to a co-working space yesterday and just had very natural conversations. And through that, people find out and photographers and just I follow up with an email to say, Hey, it’s so nice to meet.

00:42:27:07 – 00:42:41:00

You would love to connect again or have a cup of coffee whenever you’re free in real life because people are really yearning to meet in person. So I think that that’s a really nice way of building up more, more clients as well.

00:42:41:17 – 00:43:12:25

Yeah, I love I love this too, because I think one thing that people tend to forget is like to just make your own like, I guess, in the old days, right? People at Rolodex is on their doors literally like have like business cards, but you can have your own digital Rolodex of contacts for your business like people you’ve met at networking events, business owners, you can collaborate with past clients, clients you have consistently referred your business and that’s like your warm network list that is gold.

00:43:13:02 – 00:43:28:29

And I feel like this is something that we just don’t do enough of is just the basic thing of like, who are the people in my network who love me and I can turn to, you know, so I love that you’re bringing this up because it’s just so it’s so old school in a beautiful way.

00:43:29:15 – 00:44:00:12

Absolutely. And I think, you know, when you realize when you’re doing something right, when someone else refers you to someone that always makes my heart thing, when I see my name in someone else’s email saying, Hey, I know you’re looking, you’ve made a request for a photographer. You should contact Rashmi Gill, I. Some people haven’t even used me as a photographer, but they use a they mention these. Some people have used me explain the experience, and I think that for me speaks volumes and is skills.

00:44:00:18 – 00:44:24:23

I feel so honored when people do that because that’s not me telling them that someone else telling them it’s like a the reviews when people leave reviews. I don’t do the review system, but you know, people will genuinely listen to someone else about their opinion about or experience about something rather than it coming directly from me. So I always love that when that happens.

00:44:25:08 – 00:44:56:00

Yeah, I agree. And I love to Sue said this recently on a life that, like the best referrals, come typically from people who’ve like paid you, not people who you gave something away for free or like you said in your instance, where maybe they’re friends with someone who paid you, or they saw the photos of a client that paid you like, I feel like sometimes people want to do these referral systems that are all about discounts and rewards and all that stuff.

00:44:56:02 – 00:45:11:20

But like, to me, the best referrals always come from the people who like paid you, you loved it, didn’t get a discount, didn’t get anything special, but they just want to tell everyone how great it. Was you do you feel that way, too or.

00:45:12:13 – 00:45:21:09

Yeah, I do, and I think I think again, Sue may have said this. People don’t remember what you gave them. They remember how you made them feel,

00:45:22:25 – 00:45:35:11

right? She says a lot of things, I feel like everything’s probably I have in my head, but that. And that resonates. That’s always stuck with me and resonates with me because it’s true when you

00:45:37:04 – 00:46:12:18

when you go to a restaurant, you remember the food, but you’re more important. You remember how they made you feel and the people that you met and the people that you interacted with anyway, you go. So I always make sure from this very first moment I meet a client or they contact me to a very and very often, not just because they’ve done their shoot doesn’t mean I’m not going to contact them again. I check in all the time. I make sure that they feel especially my last client, if not more, and I don’t know how that’s going to be as as time goes by.

00:46:12:20 – 00:46:30:15

But I have clients who come back to me and I’m hoping a sign that they enjoyed what happened and how they were made to feel. And a lot of the times when people write back to say after the shoot or after the photos, they don’t. They will of course say thank you for the photos are great, but they will always comment.

00:46:32:14 – 00:46:45:22

I had such a fantastic time. Thank you for the way that you made us feel or thank you for making us feel so comfortable. We were so nervous, but we didn’t feel nervous at all while we were at the shoot. And that, to me, is everything.

00:46:46:10 – 00:46:50:29

Yeah, I agree. That is like the greatest compliment in business.

00:46:53:00 – 00:47:07:00

You said that even after the shoot, you still kind of reached out to them. Is there anything that you do specifically? They, you feel helps nurture the relationship. Yeah, you send emails but anything else.

00:47:07:24 – 00:47:12:06

So I text, I’m old school. I also pick up the phone and just speak to them.

00:47:14:06 – 00:47:37:24

I, I just check in. So one of the things from a business perspective that I try and do is, to your point, Ashleigh, you know, I take a lot of photos and they might they won’t necessarily choose all of them. I will say to them when I was that the seed in their head, that these photos are here still. And sometimes I don’t lose any of my photos, which I’ve done in the past. Oh boy

00:47:40:07 – 00:48:03:05

lesson learned the hard way. I put the seed in their head that they can always come back for more photos. And so when I do the check in, I did a check in to see how they’re doing and how, you know, it’d be great to see what they’re doing with the photos. And then every now and then they will say, Actually, can we have a couple more? Or better still, they’ll say, can we do another shoot?

00:48:05:02 – 00:48:14:29

Or I just referred your name to someone else? So it’s a nice way of putting that. It’s like putting a bit of water on that seed that I planted very early on.

00:48:15:29 – 00:48:36:13

Yeah, I love that. Do you ever reach out to them? Like you said, you reach out to just check in, and this is something that I have to say is like, Oh, use something that I intend to do when I feel like it always just gets like bump to the bottom of my to do list or I end up feeling really awkward about like, I’m just going to call and be like, Hey,

00:48:38:12 – 00:48:51:27

you know, because I feel like no one does that anymore. Like, Hey, just saying, Hey, hey, so can you tell us like what? What does a check in call sound like? That’s organic, and it sounds salesy.

00:48:53:25 – 00:49:02:12

I mean, the funny thing is a lot of my peers become friends like, we go out for drinks and we go like we meet up events. And

00:49:03:29 – 00:49:25:17

so it becomes really natural. And it’s not always a call. Often nowadays, you know, I’m doing something else or I’m not able to speak because there’s so much going around. So I will send a quick text and then if it happens and we’ll call each other just to do a quick check in. But most people are busy and won’t be able to pick up the phone, and I realize that. So most of the time it’s a text.

00:49:27:05 – 00:49:46:03

And I always say to people, If you need something urgently, text is best for me or just pick up the phone and call me, and if I cannot answer or call you back as soon as they can. But yeah, I mean, I literally just do pick up the phone was like, Hey, what’s going on? As most people are receptive to that.

00:49:46:12 – 00:49:55:08

Oh, OK, I love that because I mean, yeah, I think like in these days, it’s like, I don’t know, it just feels socially awkward because that doesn’t happen the way it used to happen.

00:49:56:02 – 00:50:00:08

And then also, I’m old school. Yeah, I love it.

00:50:01:13 – 00:50:03:11

And then the Oh, sorry, Kevin.

00:50:03:13 – 00:50:08:13

Oh no. I was going to say that just because we’re millennials, so we’re not used to picking up, picking up the phone, talking to young.

00:50:10:08 – 00:50:43:05

The other thing I was going to say is, like for me, I have certain people in my network that, you know, are more in the MLM line of things who will message me and I always roll my eyes, Oh my gosh, I love you. But like, what are you selling me today? I’m not interested. I don’t want to open this message. And obviously, like photography is not an MLM. But like. I always get worried about being perceived as being, like annoying, like, oh no, why is she messaging me? Um so yeah.

00:50:43:07 – 00:50:47:14

So that’s like something like maybe my own block that I don’t recall.

00:50:47:25 – 00:51:23:02

Yeah. And maybe it’s another way of maybe doing it. Contact them on their birthday. Contact them on the anniversary of their shoot, contact them because you know, they’re about to have a baby, contact them because you know, they’re about to get married. So maybe have a reason that you’re contacting them or it’s around like it might be the holidays. It might be they might celebrate Diwali or Eve or Hanukkah or something. So just it could be very simply that. So it doesn’t seem so salesy. But I mean, and I literally just say, Hey, just thinking of you, I hope you’re doing well.

00:51:23:15 – 00:51:39:06

That’s it. No, no request. No big fail thing. No. Here’s my price list and your price list. It’s just been very natural. Yeah, I haven’t seen it specifically.

00:51:39:23 – 00:51:59:21

I think that’s the key. What you just said is just making it totally friendly and natural because I think like spidey senses go up when you can tell that there’s like, you know, you’ve I’m sure you’ve gotten those messages where you’re where someone’s like from 15 years ago, like, Hey, and you’re like, What do you want? Would you be like,

00:52:00:27 – 00:52:32:20

You know, I really think that speaks to the, you know, we’re a we’re in a people business, you know? Yes, we take photos and everything. But at the end of the day, being a soul for another entrepreneur is how you treat people and befriending them. And it’s not simply about like, Hey, you know, you had a photoshoot. And the only time you’re ever going to hear from me again is when it’s time for you to re-up and have some more images, you know, to the way you, you do it yourself. Rashmi is, you’re my friend.

00:52:32:22 – 00:52:50:24

We’re going to go out for drinks. We’re going to do that. And by nurturing that will ultimately build your brand ambassadors, the people who are going to go out and say, Hey, you need your personal branding images. Don’t I know fantastic photographer that is for you?

00:52:51:14 – 00:52:53:15

Yes and yes. Sorry.

00:52:53:21 – 00:53:27:17

Oh, sorry, I was just going to say like while Kevin was saying that I just like, had that bubble moment of actually things that I’ve done in the past where it’s like I will set aside time and money in my budget to like pay for drinks out with someone. You know what I mean? Cause it’s so much nicer if you like, treat them right, especially if they’re a great client. So do you like? Budget for that, do you have like a part that you set aside for like, you know, I don’t know what you call it. I guess meals and entertainment as well, it’s sufficient for tax purposes for that,

00:53:27:22 – 00:53:55:00

yet always make it sensible. I so it’s interesting. I’ve been trying to work out if there’s a gift that I can give to people and I’m still trying to get my head around what that could be. I’ve done various things but haven’t settled on one thing. And then, yes, every now and then I will take a plane out for dinner or drinks. But again, it’s not sort of very it’s not set in stone. It’s got to happen organically. Otherwise, it’s like you say too salesy

00:53:56:21 – 00:54:01:06

and I practice what I preach. If I don’t like being sold to, I’m not going to sell to someone

00:54:02:26 – 00:54:26:07

just like I take photos of people I have. People take photos of me. So I’ve had, you know, Nikki took the most incredible photo shoot of me and my daughter and my husband in Arizona when we first went to one of the portrait masters. And then I’ve had G take photos. Alice has taken my maternity photos board and I’m trying to get her back to take photos now that he’s over one.

00:54:27:25 – 00:54:52:29

But yeah, I feel like if everything is done with authenticity, practice what you preach, be your true, authentic self. People will come, but you have to do the work. You still have to do it. But for me, that’s work, being authentic, not selling and just loving what I do and showing people how much I love it. And then they love it even more.

00:54:54:09 – 00:54:54:29

It’s fantastic.

00:54:56:26 – 00:55:16:25

So we are getting close to the end of the one hour interview. Before that, can you tell us what advice would you give for people who are potentially looking to start up their own personal branding, especially maybe outside what they should be focused on in, you know, the advice that you wish you would have gotten when you were first starting

00:55:17:16 – 00:55:20:24

just predominantly for location or generally

00:55:23:05 – 00:55:23:20

generally

00:55:24:05 – 00:55:24:20

generally

00:55:26:16 – 00:55:57:21

think about what it is that you want to shoot. Do you want to do what I did and shoot everyone or do you want us to specifically do certain types of of of companies, people or otherwise? Because I see that there have been a bit of both. Like I said before, be your authentic self. Really, don’t don’t try to be anything that you’re not. For me, lesson learned is do what you’re good at and delegate what you’re not or don’t enjoy.

00:55:58:00 – 00:56:05:14

Editing is something I spent hours overnight trying to do, and I realized I hated it and I didn’t want to have the time doing it.

00:56:05:29 – 00:56:06:16

Same.

00:56:09:06 – 00:56:45:12

Hats off to all those editors out there, but it’s just not for me. And then think about your pricing and what works for you. For me, it’s going to be a changing thing, and I this is a new thing for me. But January surprising me with this new page, even with this new set up, ended up being really busy for me and it shocked me. But be true to yourself. Be open to everything again. Like Sue said, give with open arms, take with open arms and say thank you and be grateful for every single thing and any encounter you have.

00:56:47:05 – 00:57:02:24

Think about it in a way in the back of your mind of how can I make this a relationship? Whether it be personal business and personal ones, it’s probably will end up becoming a business too one way or the other, whether it be a for a referral or that person actually being a client, because that’s worked for me too.

00:57:03:21 – 00:57:10:13

That is fantastic advice. Thank you very much. And it has been an absolute pleasure having you on with us.

00:57:11:16 – 00:57:13:16

Oh my gosh, it’s been amazing.

00:57:16:07 – 00:57:48:17

I wish we could do this in person. Where we can actually touch each other was like, Oh my God, you’re real. Yeah. Thank you so much for having me on. Honestly, it’s such a pleasure and honor to be here, but also to be a part of this incredible community has given me so, so much. I’ve made the best friends here, and I see you, though I see you, not me. I see you as you know, the community. It’s been the one thing that I’ve been looking for all this time during my career, and I’m happy.

00:57:48:21 – 00:57:56:02

I’m so thrilled and grateful to have found it, and I’m grateful to you to have given me this opportunity to share a little bit of my story.

00:57:57:12 – 00:58:04:09

Thank you for sharing it. Before we let you go, can you go ahead and share socials so people know where to find you?

00:58:04:22 – 00:58:14:24

Oh, of course I can. My IG handle is Rashmi Gill photography and my website is W w w dot Rashmi Gill dot com.

00:58:16:02 – 00:58:50:11

There we go. Everyone, please, please be sure to go. Be sure to go follow Rashmi as well as make sure to follow the portrait system on Instagram and on Facebook as well. Also, be sure to check out the blog posts that are associated with our Clubhouse interviews at SueBryceEducation.com/blog. You can follow Ashleigh on Instagram at Ashleigh Taylor Portrait That is ASHLEIGH and you can find me there as a PopLight_photography. If you are a member of the portrait system and you have any more questions for Rashmi, Ashleigh, or myself, please go tag us in a post.

00:58:50:13 – 00:59:08:19

In the Portrait System Members Only Facebook Group. And if you are not a member of the portrait system and you are interested in learning more about how it can help your business succeed. Reach out to Ella on our support team by emailing support@SueBryceEducation.Com. Thank you again for joining us and hope you can join us next week.

00:59:09:12 – 00:59:45:00

Thanks again for listening today. And don’t forget, you can listen to either me or our special guests every Friday on Club House at 11:00 a.m. Pacific. Thank you so much for listening to the Portrait System Podcast. Your five-star reviews really help us to continue what we do. So, if you like listening, would you mind giving us a review wherever you listen? I also encourage you to head over to SueBryceEducation.com, where you can find all of the education you need to be a successful photographer. There are over 1,000 on-demand educational videos on things like posing, lighting, styling, retouching, shooting, marketing, sales, business, and self-value

There’s also the 90 Day Startup Challenge, plus so many downloads showing hundreds of different poses. We have to-do checklists for your business, lighting PDFs, I mean truly everything to help make you a better photographer and to make you more money. Once again, that’s SueBryceEducation.com.