Branding Brilliance with Wani Olatunde

September 10, 2021 Artist Spotlight

Clubhouse Conversation: Wani Olatunde

In the latest episode of the Portrait System Podcast: Clubhouse Edition, Kevin Conde and Ashleigh Taylor chat with Wani Olatunde of Wani Olatunde Portraits. Wani had a wildly successful portrait business in Nigeria, and is now building a new portrait business in the UK, in the town where she was born.  After hearing Wani and Nikki talk on Episode 89 of the Portrait System Podcast, Kevin and Ashleigh were eager to have Wani as a guest in the Clubhouse. They took this opportunity to dive deep into conversation on the topics of branding and online marketing.

Branding goes well beyond your logos, fonts, and color schemes. Your brand really lives in your systems, processes, and the way you interact with your clients. Be sure to listen to the whole podcast to hear all the little things that add up to make your brand stand out in a crowded field and how your communication can make all the difference. You also won’t want to miss hearing how Wani has honed in on which social media platforms to participate in, where in those to focus the most, and how to simplify the rest.

In this blog, you’ll find some of Wani’s romantic portraits, links to her web presence, and answers to some bonus questions.

To hear more from Wani check out: Be You to Find Your Niche with Wani Olatunde.

SBE courses mentioned during the podcast are: SEO with Rob Greer and Social Media Marketing. Other relevant courses include: Lifestyle & Instagram Content Marketing, Instagram Videos with Animoto, and Instagram Stories.

Join us live every Friday for Clubhouse conversations and get answers to your questions! Just search “The Portrait System” in the Clubhouse App and follow us there.

Get to Know Wani Olatunde

Q: When did you first come across Sue Bryce Education, and how has it affected your career?

A: I fell in love with Sue back when she did her very first CreativeLIVE back in 2012/2013. I had been searching for my place with my portraits, and seeing what Sue did for every day women clarified things for me immediately. I knew I wanted to make women feel the way Sue made her clients feel. I’ve bought every single thing of Sue’s since then! I’m an SBE-lifer, no doubt!

If I had to choose only one piece of education for life, it would be Sue Bryce Education! You have EVERYTHING you need to create a successful business. Highly recommended!

Q: When first starting out, many photographers hit roadblocks on their journey to starting their business – whether feeling their equipment isn’t good enough or feeling they need a studio to start a business. What roadblocks did you encounter, and how did you get over them?

A: So many! I think we all go through the same struggles to be honest! My biggest struggle has probably been imposter syndrome! Feeling not good enough, not creative enough, not interesting enough. Constant comparison to everyone else has been the most debilitating experience for me.

But I love when Sue asks, “good enough for what?” We are all good enough to serve our clients. To make sure they feel heard and seen. To help put that spark back in their eyes and help them fall in love with themselves all over again. So while I still struggle with imposter syndrome most days, I’ve learnt to refocus my attention onto my clients when I do. We are all good enough to serve!

Q: How do you feel about your current work/life balance?

A: Haha – next question! Sigh. #kiddingnotkidding

It’s a work in progress! It’s hard when you are trying to rebuild a business. I don’t feel like I can get any time off. I work pretty much 7 days a week. There’s always some marketing / editing / admin to be done.

It’s tough trying to balance it with 2 young kids, and it’s a permanent sense of mum guilt.

But self-care and balance are so important! So, I’m working on giving myself boundaries and understanding that the work will never end. I’m also learning to give myself permission to go and grow a little slower. I’m even starting to focus on getting some me time!

It’s definitely a work in progress!

Q: What (beyond money) has owning a business given you?

A: Running a successful business has given me a new-found sense of self-confidence & self-worth.

I’m not a natural entrepreneur. I don’t enjoy the ups & downs and the constant hustle. And sometimes I really just miss the consistency of a 9-to-5 paycheck where figuring out the ins & outs of the business is someone else’s problem – lol!

I never thought I was capable of building a business, but I’ve done it twice now, and I know if I can do that, then I can do anything! I’ve seen my business grow year on year, and I’ve been able to provide for my family in a way I never thought possible. It’s both exhilarating & exhausting. But the whole experience has made me very resilient, and I’m grateful for that.

Q: What is your favorite advice that you’ve been given along your journey that has helped you the most? 

A: Ooh, so many!

But “Done is better than perfect” has probably been the biggest game changer for me. I’m a perfectionist and suffer from analysis paralysis, which means I procrastinate a lot and never quite get through my to-do list.

So giving myself deadlines & holding myself accountable has allowed me to keep moving forward!

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Wani Olatunde of Wani Olatunde Portraits

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Click Here to Read the Podcast Transcript

FULL TRANSCRIPT: Please note this transcript was generated by AI and may contain errors. 

00:00:01:04 – 00:00:32:26

This is the Portrait System podcast, a show that helps portrait photographers and people hoping to become one navigate the world of photography, business, money, and so much more. We totally keep it real. We share stories about the incredible ups and the very difficult downs when running a photography business. I’m your host, Nikki Closser, and the point of this podcast is for you to learn actionable steps that you can take to grow your own business and also to feel inspired and empowered by the stories you hear. Hey, guys, for today’s Clubhouse episode, we have Wani Olatunde back on the portrait system.

00:00:32:28 – 00:00:56:27

I’m so excited that she’s back for a clubhouse chat with Ashleigh Taylor and Kevin Conde. This time they talk all about marketing and branding online, and it’s just such a good episode. Always love getting questions from people who are listening live. So make sure to join Clubhouse. Grab that app if you haven’t already, and you’re always welcome to listen live and ask questions of our guests. OK, let’s get started with Ashleigh, Kevin and Wani.

00:00:57:21 – 00:01:28:07

welcome everyone to the Portrait System podcast Clubhouse Edition. My name is Kevin Conde and I’m here with my co-host Ashleigh Taylor. If you are not familiar with the portrait system, we are a portrait photography podcast that is powered by Sue Bryce education. Nikki Closser hosts our regular Monday episodes, and Ashleigh and I co-host our Clubhouse Edition, which is live here on the Clubhouse app every Friday at Noon Pacific, and then our episodes are released on Thursdays. You can tune in on your favorite podcast app by searching for the portrait system.

00:01:28:24 – 00:01:29:29

Ashleigh, how are you doing today?

00:01:30:10 – 00:01:48:25

I’m good, Kevin, and I’m so excited to be here co-hosting our chat once again with you today, and I’m so excited to introduce our guest Wani Olatunde. How are you guys. We’re good. You are so excited to have you today.

00:01:49:08 – 00:02:00:14

Oh, I’m really glad to be here. I listen to your clubhouse all the time and I love your back and forth. And I have to say I’ve never met Kevin, but I really love your voice. It’s very like, you know, raise your voice, right?

00:02:01:02 – 00:02:02:22

Thank you. Oh, I’m blushing.

00:02:04:14 – 00:02:36:14

So we reached you were recently a guest on I believe it was episode 89 with Nikki Closser. We listen to your interview. Loved it. But we did have some follow up questions that we wanted to ask. OK, so we thought it’d be a great idea to go ahead and bring you on so that we can, you know, discuss a bit about your business. Sounds good. You have built such a strong brand for yourself, even though you’ve said you’re not a fan of in-person networking and you’ve done that through a strong online presence.

00:02:36:26 – 00:03:04:19

Marketing and defining your brand. So we wanted to go ahead and have a sit down to kind of deep dive into your process. OK, so let’s start off by talking about how you determine. What went into your brand? First off, what is involved in defining a brand and is it just a colour scheme, font choices, logos or is there more to determining what your brand should and will be?

00:03:05:13 – 00:03:37:04

OK, well, that’s a complicated question. OK. So for me, I don’t know if I always recommend this book. I’m called Worth Every Penny by Sarah Petti. It came out, I think, like 10 years ago, but basically she talks about being a boutique photographer. And one thing she said that really stuck with me was that a brand? Your brand is how people feel about you when you’re not in the room. So it’s not just the colors or your logo or you find anything like that. It’s about your processes is about how you treat your clients.

00:03:37:12 – 00:04:10:24

It’s about your systems. Like there’s so much that goes into the brand. And so one side of this is that they didn’t have to, like, go crazy over a logo. It doesn’t really matter. And I know Sue says, like, who cares about a logo? It’s like a simple font done, you know, but it really is a whole process and intention to your brand. And I think one of the things that has really helped me kind of grow my business and become a high end brand while I’m rebuilding now. But in my previous life, it was the fact that I paid attention to every single aspect of my process.

00:04:10:26 – 00:04:36:26

So how I spoke to clients when they first inquired how I treated clients during the shoot, how I let them through the process and when we were looking at their pictures and then the little gifts you give them, like at the end, just to say you are valued, thank you for choosing me and you are the most important person to me right now. And I think all those little things play into building a brand that allows you. That gives you the credibility, first of all, but then also allows you to charge more.

00:04:37:03 – 00:04:55:28

Ultimately, I think that’s so right. What do you like? I recently had a personal brand client who has a very successful business, and she said to me like, Oh, I’m so impressed with your client onboarding process. Like, you’re just such a pro and you make every. And I was kind of like, I don’t know.

00:04:57:27 – 00:05:27:12

I know that I am. But at the same time, like, no one really had said that to me before, and I can tell that she’s like such a badass boss, babe. So it was like really a high compliment. But it just made me think like, you know, like how important that is, like how important it is to just show up and show that you have a system and that you know how to take care of your client from the moment they contact you. It really says so much more about you than just like you said of font or a color scheme.

00:05:27:22 – 00:06:01:27

And I, you have a funny well, so actually. So one. Yes. That comment where people always like because when I started in Nigeria, there wasn’t a lot of people didn’t really have structure. They just kind of like turn up as a photographer. But I always wanted to be that business because I have a banking background and brought a lot of that professionalism to what I did. And so really, people are like, Oh, wow, she’s so professional. You’re like, you’re the most professional vendor we’ve worked with, especially in the wedding space, which can be a little bit chaotic. So that really that really helped me stand out and even like a few months ago, so I had a client who will say, you know, sometimes you get a client that makes you really nervous.

00:06:01:29 – 00:06:36:28

She’s like, really high-achieving, you know, head of risk somewhere. And she’s just like a really. And she just randomly she was like, I was strolling the streets of Instagram and I found you and I’m like, OK. And we literally had her shoot and did her pictures, like within two weeks. And then she said, like a month or two after that, she sent me a message and went, You know, I was at Mercedes today with trying to get my car sorted out. And they were just like all over the place. And I was like, Why don’t you give me service? Like Wani? And I’m like, Wait, what? OK, OK. You know, I was like, No, Mercedes, OK, so it’s like, you know, it really.

00:06:37:04 – 00:06:56:23

People do pay attention like, so sometimes when people go like, Oh, it doesn’t matter, you know, the email is it has a few typos and it doesn’t matter where people are paying attention and it’s something you build upon. So it’s really important to to be intentional about the way you interact with clients because honestly, it does make all the difference and people do notice, especially the right clients will notice as well.

00:06:57:05 – 00:07:19:00

Yeah. And that brings up a good point, too. Like what do you do if you drop the ball in any way? Because I know, like I think that I hold myself to a pretty high standard and professional all the time, but every once in a while, a mistake happens right? And like, so I think it’s always good to ask people like, how do you handle it if you drop the ball in a a relationship that to keep the brand up?

00:07:19:08 – 00:07:49:15

I mean, we’re human right like no one is on the ball 100 percent of the time, you know? And I think I’m I’m like a perfectionist. So I’m always like, very unkind to myself when I mess up, like, I’m like, You’re such an idiot. But clients, first of all, clients, if you’ve been good to clients all through and they like you as a person, they’re a lot more forgiving. Like if your friend messes up, you know, like, Oh my god, you’re an idiot, get away from me. You’re like, Oh no, that sucks. How do we fix that kind of thing? All right. And so like, for example, if I had.

00:07:49:25 – 00:08:26:20

An order out, an album for clients who ordered her wedding album for extra family. And my album company just wasn’t getting this album right. It just had all sorts of issues. And so something that should have taken six six weeks took almost two months, and I was just horrified. I was like, I was so apologetic. I’m like, This is not me, I’m so sorry. She’s like, It’s fine, I’m not fast, you know, I trust you. I know you want to get it right. Don’t worry about it kind of thing. And so I think one of the things the photographer I notice the photographers do when things go wrong is that they panic and they don’t communicate with the client. So they just they just kind of like goes to the client, you know, and and that’s just that’s just the very wrong approach to take.

00:08:26:26 – 00:08:49:13

Because at the end of the day, half of our issues can be diffused if we just keep an open channel communication going. This is what is happening. I’m so sorry. This is what I’m doing to fix it. This is the timing I think will work. And you know, how can I make it up to you? And then I’d be at the back end of things, you know, like, I’m giving more gifts and oh, actually, I can tell you the worst thing that ever happened to me happened last year. I say 2020 was the year from hell.

00:08:49:23 – 00:08:50:08


00:08:52:15 – 00:08:53:00


00:08:54:02 – 00:09:30:25

literally this is I’ve been in photography for 10 years. This is never happened to me. I was shooting a proposal, actually my first proposal and the moment where the guy is on the floor merely asking for a hand in marriage, my camera just stops working. It stops working. It does. It does. It was the whole, you know, you have to take out your battery. It was just not working. The flash didn’t go off. I was. I missed the moment. Basically, I missed the moment, the actual moment of the proposal. I was only there for one hour shoot. I was so I looked. I was. I sent it away is like, Is there any way you can rescue this? Like, you can turn into a painting maybe like, there’s no rescuing this picture.

00:09:31:04 – 00:10:09:27

And I was so horrified. It was like the worst moment of my career, and I was just upfront with the clients. If I don’t like, I’m sorry, I’m so sorry and there’s no do over. Obviously, the proposal has come and gone unless you are re-enact it. So I was like, I’ll give you a full refund, I’ll give you a pre-wedding shoot, and what can I do to make it up to you? And they were like, You know, it’s fine. Like, it’s it’s OK. It’s like, we’ll take the pre-wedding shoot, but you know, it’s OK. Like, we get it. And I was like, Oh, they were so forgiving. I was really shocked by me. Sometimes things just really go wrong, and it’s really about how you handle it because I just learned to, like, run away and hide and just stay under the covers for ever because I was so embarrassed.

00:10:09:29 – 00:10:23:28

I was so embarrassed by what happened, but I was just honest and they were like, It’s fine. And they and they’re coming back for a pre-wedding shoot. So, you know, these things just open. Talk to your clients, be open and kind of show them that you’re willing to try and fix it. And I think that makes all the difference.

00:10:24:19 – 00:10:58:23

Yeah, I totally agree. And I think too sometimes like it’s also important to pick up the phone instead of emailing because sometimes like if someone is like getting like they’re annoyed and you’re embarrassed, like, then you’re tone kind of might come off bad in the email and it just kind of snowballed from there. So I’ve definitely noticed that it’s better to, like, pick up the phone and then obviously be genuinely like, I’m sorry, you know, and like, I want to fix it. And if people can hear that in the tone of your voice, it’s so much better than like a three sentence email.

00:10:59:09 – 00:11:22:08

Absolutely, absolutely. Like, like, no one wants to do it, but you just have to put on your big girl pants and do it because it’s like, what is the worst that can happen? Like, they hate you and they blacklist you. OK, fine. Yeah, I messed up so in it. But like, you actually can go a long way to fix the problem. Just by Definitely never. Never email a text, just pick up the phone and have that conversation as uncomfortable as it might be.

00:11:22:26 – 00:11:52:26

Exactly. And one book I read and I like totally can’t remember which one it was, but it was a business advice type book, and it said something along the lines of like, we can actually do more for our brands and impress our clients more when we mess up. Because when you mess up, you’re essentially given the opportunity to kind of be a hero and fix it. Whereas if you’re doing everything right, which obviously we want to do everything right, but if you’re doing everything right like you can’t really show how you handle things under pressure.

00:11:52:28 – 00:12:10:14

So sometimes, like loyal clients are even created in different moments because you showed up and you did the right thing and like most people, don’t do the right thing, unfortunately. So you really do, like, stand out even more when you do own up to your mistakes or you do pick up that phone and have that conversation.

00:12:10:26 – 00:12:31:14

Absolutely, absolutely. And I think you’ll see that when you yourself or your client, because I know the people I respond to are people who are actually I feel like paying attention to me, that there’s a problem. Now the people who go, this is just customer service. Oh, we went wrong. It’s not our fault. Nothing we can do about it. So just just treat your clients like human beings and like friends. And and honestly, it’ll be all right.

00:12:32:07 – 00:12:59:14

So Wani you said that you come from your background is banking. You have a level of professionalism already there for people that are starting to just starting out for photography. How do you go about determining what aspects? In your brand, you actually have to focus on and should be considered professional, like, you know, you said you have the nice gifts at the end. Where are you getting the different,

00:13:01:03 – 00:13:06:18

I guess, categories for the branding aspect that you have to turn to professional?

00:13:07:04 – 00:13:37:08

So I think so. I’m sure Sue has something in spin on this, but basically you need to look at your client process. Like what is the process of how do you meet a client through your business? So first of all, let’s start with the basics have a decent logo and you can get one for like $50. It literally can just be a fun, just has to be nice, and it should not look homemade. First of all, because, you know, we make people our first impressions are formed in microseconds. At this point, it’s no longer three seconds. And then people, you look at a color you like. It’s not for me.

00:13:37:10 – 00:13:53:19

You look at a font. No, that looks homemade. So get your font right. Have a professional email address. So don’t have like a Hotmail anti-male at AOL. Please don’t have an I still see that that. I’m like, I’m like, Oh, in the 90s, I don’t know what is happening that

00:13:53:24 – 00:13:55:10

just just been in business for a while.

00:13:56:02 – 00:14:26:16

Yeah, I should know better. So it’s like just the basics, you know, that’s just basic and professional standards. So OK. And then so client contacts you. So you’re in quite they send you an enquiry. Great. How are you responding? I mean, now there’s a whole I think we suffer from like too much information in this era. I often find myself being overwhelmed because there’s so many different approaches and people are often contradicting each other in their approach. So this is what I say. There are a million ways to reach the destination. What works for one person might not work for you.

00:14:26:23 – 00:15:02:27

I don’t mean like educators who go, it’s my way or the highway. This is the only way that works because that’s not true. We all have different personalities. We all have different approaches and just find the one that works for you and then stick with that. So I know some people are, like, always speak to clients on the phone. I’m an introvert. I don’t love speaking to clients on the phone, especially calling queries only if I know that you’re definitely like kind of almost warm leads I’ll speak to on the phone. Everyone else, I’ll just email. And so the email is Let it do you sound excited? Have you paid attention to what they’ve said? Pick up notes? And maybe just like if they’ve said that particular venue or they said something about the family, just respond to that.

00:15:02:29 – 00:15:04:22

So they shows it’s a human responding.

00:15:06:16 – 00:15:37:24

And then once they end, their business consultation is important. That’s important parts of being a professional. That’s the difference between the shoots and burner, who just says who you pay and then they turn up and the clothes don’t match and they feel awkward and they don’t know how to pose. So that consultation where you just guiding the clients, leading them through the process, making sure they feel heard and listened to, helping them plan their outfits, helping them plan their wall art, if that’s what you do. Well, those little things help, you know, in the mass shooting itself, you know, you turn up, you look for it.

00:15:37:26 – 00:16:25:08

I mean, I’m pretty basic. I don’t get dressed up. I wear black, so I’m free to move my dress comfortable. But don’t look, don’t look homeless, you know, and just smile at them, encourage them, listen to them. If they have kids, be really nice to the kids. Everyone likes it. When they’re nice, to they’re kids. You can win over most parents with just paying attention to their kids, you know, and just make help make them feel seen for me. For clients always making them feel seen, heard and listened to. Because I feel like a lot of times we don’t get that in our daily lives. Always. So it’s really nice when you have someone who is just taking that extra bit of time, you know, and they feel looked after even things like if you’re in the studio, what kind of music do you listen to? Which snacks would you prefer? Just little things, you know, like, just be a good hostess and then you have your viewing, you know, you guide them through that, which is great.

00:16:25:14 – 00:16:55:23

And then the products that you’re offering your clients, it doesn’t have to be like the high end products. It depends where your pricing is, but kind of work on the best product you can offer within your budget, you know, and make sure they displayed nicely and make sure everything looks and feels good. You know, make sure your studio is nice and clean. So there are just so many touch points. And then they and then the end of the process. Obviously, you deliver an album make sure the names are spelled correctly. Make sure that the pages aren’t sticking together, make sure the colors are right.

00:16:55:29 – 00:17:26:03

Make sure there are no issues with the album where you just think, Oh, that’s fine. It’s just a small issue. Now, I think you have to have really high standards and make sure that whatever you’re delivering to your client is the best quality possible. So they just fall in love with whatever you’re delivering. And at the end, you don’t have to do gifts. Don’t people do all sorts of gifts? People do like vouchers to restaurants or vouchers to come back. It can be a photography gift. It can be a non photography gift. It can be. Some people do wine, but not every one drinks alcohol.

00:17:26:05 – 00:17:59:07

So people even do steaks like they just think about your brand, think about what you can. Even in some people, even just a simple accordions, which like cost $5. Just to say this, to thank you. So I think the best thing is like those handwritten notes, I just do a handwritten notes in that. And that’s just we don’t get a lot of stuff anymore. Everything is online, so people actually do appreciate that you’ve taken out the time. Writes my rankings of the best, but I can writes a few lines and go, just thank you so much, I enjoyed working with you. Enjoy this whenever I’m given them, and that’s it.

00:17:59:13 – 00:18:13:01

And then I try and stay in touch with them over on social media, so I try and celebrates them when they have things going on. Just stay engaged and stay and just kind of stay in touch. And that’s kind of my hope versus

00:18:13:21 – 00:18:14:13

that’s that’s

00:18:14:15 – 00:18:15:23

all fantastic. That was a lot.

00:18:16:16 – 00:18:18:06

Yeah, all those great, though,

00:18:18:19 – 00:18:51:08

as you said, there Wani. There was there’s a lot of good information in there. I think the pull away from that, though, is the the touchpoint, the aspects of every part that your clients see of you. You brought up the idea of, yes, you got a you don’t want to put too much time into your logos or, you know, I’ve seen people in the Sue Bryce Facebook group like, Oh, should I name myself this portraits or this photography or this like at the end of the day, that part doesn’t matter. It just there is some importance to it.

00:18:51:16 – 00:18:56:03

Like, Yes, you obviously don’t want to look like you made your logo in MS paint.

00:18:56:12 – 00:18:57:00

Yeah, I

00:18:57:17 – 00:19:20:04

don’t have to spend months trying to oh, you know, if I have a flower, how many petals should be on it? You know, the same thing with your font. Don’t make it comic sans. No, but it has to look decent enough. And I think that the touchpoints in this is the, you know, most important information from all that great information that you just pointed out.

00:19:20:17 – 00:19:21:06


00:19:21:27 – 00:19:43:14

When when you are creating your brand and you are looking to redefine yourself, was there any anything that you noticed about yourself that you’re like, this isn’t, you know, what am I doing myself as a person that I’m not doing correctly? I should change this aspect. I need to change this. Part of my schedule was anything like that when you’re rebranding yourself.

00:19:44:19 – 00:20:21:17

I think it’s a constant work in progress. I’m constantly changing things, trying to see if this works, see if that works, see what clients are responding to. So nothing ever is. My brand is constantly shifting like behind the scenes. Outwardly, it stays the same, but behind the scenes I’m constantly moving things about as I, as I evolve, as I get more confident, as I learn new things, I’m constantly changing things, whether it’s my website or my my language. I’m one of the things I did was I did this branding course with a guy called Jeff Yoakam, and he his he his kind of ethos of that.

00:20:21:28 – 00:21:04:03

You know, we all photographers, we all do the same thing. And the thing that really differentiates who we are is us as a kind of the thing that differentiates our brand is us. We are the because, you know, you have all your romantic photographers, you have all your your studio photographers, you have, you know, we all kind of do the same thing. We all really great that, you know, I mean, and to be really great in serving our clients, doing great work, you know, so really, we come to that point where we are our USP. Introverts have a quiet strength about them with the way they deal with clients, and people are really extroverted and really, really bubbly with their clients, you know? And so it’s just trying to understand who you are.

00:21:04:19 – 00:21:36:27

What you do, this whole exercise where you go through your your branding, where it’s so you have to. So it’s really awkward. You have to say you had go on Facebook and ask or ask your friends to describe me in three words and then kind of see what words were coming out over again because, you know, sometimes it’s really hard to kind of look at yourself and analyze yourself, right? Is this much easier to do it for someone else? But it feels, I don’t know. Maybe it’s just me. It feels really hard to do it for myself. I’m like, I don’t know. I don’t know. I am. I don’t know. So it was really interesting to go through that Facebook process.

00:21:36:29 – 00:22:08:06

I had like maybe 50 different comments and a lot of the same words started coming out. So through the process, I was able to establish my words as romantic, nurturing and spirited know. And you could see that plays in my mind, my wedding work, especially, you know, and it’s just kind of the way I try and treat my clients that we tried to look after them, make sure they feel seen and heard. And so there’s a kind of the words I used to guide my process, but otherwise everything is always changing. My my price list changes. At least one of my my emails change, my email templates change.

00:22:08:08 – 00:22:35:22

I’m always just tweaking to kind of see what works. And the one that gets the most responses, like everything else, you know, you can’t stay stagnant. You always have to be growing. You know, some things will work, some things we don’t. But I think it’s not. As you’re as you get more experienced in business, you don’t get too attached to negative feedback. It’s like it’s just feedback that that isn’t working so well. So let me try something else, you know, and it’s all just a learning experience.

00:22:36:18 – 00:22:51:05

So where are you getting like your feedback loop from, from your actual clients, from your responses on social media? Where are you getting the information, where you are? You know, maybe this isn’t working. Right, maybe I need to switch to this part of my business up

00:22:51:29 – 00:23:24:18

in different places, so for example, if I’m trying out different responses to inquiries, you know, and I’ll notice, oh, like a longer email isn’t really working, but if I just send like two or three lines that’s working, then that’s great. Or if I do something for a client like so for example, I was gifting clients, I was gifting clients at the same time, I was giving them their products. And so they were like, Oh, thank you. But they weren’t that excited because they were excited by their products. But then they started sending them their gifts, like two weeks after I’d closed the order.

00:23:25:00 – 00:24:02:09

And now they’re like, Oh, I wasn’t expecting this is like Christmas, you know, it’s like, we need to get a partially a nice thing to do like, Oh, this is fun. And there were a lot more excited, you know, and they’re sharing it on social media, that kind of thing. So this is literally whatever you’re doing. So I think this ties into having goals and knowing what you’re trying to achieve because otherwise you just be a little bit like blind side and all over the place. So if I’m doing social media and I’m trying out reels as I’m trying out a messaging, I’m I’m looking at which which posts are giving me the response I want, which is giving me engagement, which are giving me damn people sliding into my DMs.

00:24:02:17 – 00:24:20:15

You know, if I’m doing ads is like, who’s responding? Since everything is just the everything you do is a process where you’re getting a feedback loop loop and say, This is what I’m trying to achieve. I’ve done it. Am I getting the results I want? OK, that’s not happening. OK, what can I tweak? And it’s a constant I mean, being a business owner is like exhausting because

00:24:22:02 – 00:24:23:22

it’s never just the 40 hours, right?

00:24:24:03 – 00:24:54:00

I know it is. Sometimes you just miss the nine to five where you’re like, This is your job. This is just a small part of the job, and then you can go home and forget about it but business owner you’re constantly your brain’s always like going, OK, how can I make this better? How can I improve this? Everything is really optimized, you know, and if new things coming out all the time as well. So I and your clients are evolving as well, and the type of clients you’re trying to reach are evolving. So far, what worked for when you were charging an average of a thousand dollars is not going to work for when you’re charging an average of $5000, right? So it’s a constant growth process.

00:24:55:16 – 00:25:33:17

Wani I know that copywriting is also a huge part of branding, and I’ve noticed that your writing on your website is so beautiful, and I think it can be hard as SBE members to not fall into the trap of, like all using the exact same words, even though obviously we all have a similar sentiment and empowering people to feel confident on the camera. So I was wondering if you had any advice for people and how they could find their own unique ways in copywriting, even if the sentiment is similar to this community of photographers?

00:25:34:07 – 00:26:07:22

Um yeah. I mean, copywriting is hard. I don’t. It takes me a long time to get the words there. Couple of tools that help. Obviously, copywriting you can you can hire or do a trade with a copywriter, which always works. But I like the tip the Sue gave, which is like she because she hates writing as well right, but she speaks it into a dictaphone and then gets and then transcribe it because sometimes it’s easier when we just talk through everything. And then then from when we listen to what we’ve spoken that we can then take the words and kind of transcribe that into.

00:26:07:24 – 00:26:40:14

So that’s a good way to help you find your voice because you just speak normally. While sometimes I think we feel like we have to be super formal, super professional, but really, clients just want us to. They want to show us the show personality. They want to know who we are. And so if you can just find your own voice, then then that that will help you stand out more and might also use a couple of tools. There’s a tool called conversion A.I. and that like takes your words. It literally has something that says content improver, and it makes in the words better.

00:26:41:06 – 00:26:44:05

Oh wow. Yeah, it’s really good.

00:26:45:07 – 00:26:47:03

It’s called that one more time for the people.

00:26:47:14 – 00:27:25:07

Yes, that’s conversion AI. It’s called Jarvis. I just discovered it like two months ago. It’s not cheap, but like, I use it for Facebook ads and Google ads, and I use it for everything. So it can be used for blogs as well. And it gives you different formats and it creates stuff that it’s obviously more catchy and it takes all the extra. It just makes your words better. People use it a lot for like lots of different things, but yeah, I found that helpful. But I think also, I think if you just speak or maybe you talk to someone and just like if you’re trying to maybe come up with their about page or something, just talk to your friend, tell them what you do, record it, and then listen back to what you said.

00:27:25:09 – 00:27:27:27

And then I think you’ll be able to put something together from that as well.

00:27:28:20 – 00:27:31:24

That is awesome. Jarvis make me sound smarter.

00:27:32:29 – 00:27:38:06

Exactly. Literally, that’s what it does. I’m like, Ooh, I like the way you did that. So yeah, that’s great.

00:27:38:29 – 00:27:54:14

So I wanted to ask you going back a little bit you when it comes to building your brand. Mm hmm. You had with Nikki, you had said you wanted to. Help differentiate yourself from other photographers, because you felt it, everyone, yes, everyone has the beautiful,

00:27:56:05 – 00:28:07:21

beautiful style, but they’re all very similar in this regard. Or anything out there. You were seeing other photographers doing that. Maybe you were following along with that and ultimately you’re like, You know what? This isn’t me. This is something I need to change.

00:28:09:05 – 00:28:39:20

Yes. I think when I was speaking to Nikki about was that done done, I am doing networking and like for personal branding. The what seems to be more popular and more wanted is the it’s not the studio personal branding as we know, it’s as we define it in SBE. But as come to my business, let’s go to different coffee shops and let’s just go around the place and I try to make myself fit into that mode. But first of all, I really don’t want to be going around the place.

00:28:39:22 – 00:29:11:03

I like my studo just fine. I have everything I need there. I don’t want to go around and have two location scouts and I was just I. Sometimes I just felt like I was a square peg trying to fit into a round hole. And that can be tough, you know, because you just kind of feel like nobody wants what you’re offering. So. So it’s important to kind of find your right audience, and it’s important to actually know who you are and make sure you’re consistent to yourself because it’s easy to just get swept along what everyone else is doing because that happened with weddings as well.

00:29:11:05 – 00:29:43:23

I was, you know, because sometimes you just when you feel like you’re not doing what everyone wants and you kind of feel a little rejected, you know, you’re like, OK, let me just try and be like everyone else. And so like, people want me to. But it’s never worked out well. And for me, I think having our wedding business, it should be. We should be doing. We’re creating work we love. Otherwise, why not just go work on the nine to five? That’s a lot less stressful, you know? So it’s been it’s been a journey both times for me to kind of go, it’s OK to understand there is a client for everyone.

00:29:44:01 – 00:30:15:20

Whether you want to create painted portraits that use only one light in the shadow or you want to have like super high key across the spectrum, there is a client for everyone. What takes time is finding the right way your clients on hand hanging out and also just understanding who your clients were. Because I think when my personal branding, I wasn’t quite sure who my client was. But now I get it now and now I know that my personal binding client is someone who’s been in business for kind of four or five years upwards.

00:30:15:27 – 00:30:51:14

Who who caters to women mostly has a lifestyle brand. You know, and for me, I can now start to use my that information about who my ideal client is to start to craft my messaging, more specifically to craft my Facebook ads more specifically. So it just it takes a toll time. It’s kind of like a trial and error process. Sometimes you just need to understand who you’re looking for and then it’s a lot easier, I guess, like dating. Like once you know, kind of what you’re looking for, it’s a lot easier to kind of focus your mind to find that person rather than just trying to be everything to everyone.

00:30:51:16 – 00:30:54:17

Because honestly, that’s exhausting, and I never really works out for you.

00:30:55:14 – 00:31:34:09

That’s such great advice. And now is the point where we can ask, Well, you in the audience can ask questions, and you can do that by just hitting the little hand icon in the lower right hand portion of the screen. So make sure you raise your hands will bring you up on stage. And then Wani I know you’re talking a little bit about ads. you’ve mentioned Google ads, you mentioned Facebook ads. What’s your approach to ads in terms of like messaging? Like, are you using it for lead generation? Are you using it for brand awareness? How are you use utilizing them?

00:31:35:06 – 00:32:06:01

Honestly, ads are still a work in progress for me. They haven’t worked too well for me. I’m constantly tweaking things and I’m doing a couple, of courses as well just too because I mean, the rules keep changing as well. So I’ll buy a course. But then I won’t look at it for a year. And then the rules have changed, so becomes obsolete. So for me, so. So yeah, I call or talk about ads because they are, they are. I’m still I’m dedicating some money to just playing and figuring, figuring out how it works, basically. But that’s not. I know. I know it works for a lot of people.

00:32:06:03 – 00:32:15:03

And for me, I like I just like the idea of being able to turn on a tap where I can. I don’t mind spending the money because I find it easier than having to do a ton of networking.

00:32:15:07 – 00:32:16:13

So yes,

00:32:18:08 – 00:32:43:05

that is the plan. We have a question from Dallas or Dallas. You can go ahead and unmute yourself and then we can take your question. Hi, guys. This is my first time asking a question on Clubhouse. So bear with me if I don’t do it right. But thanks so much for your talk today Wani. It’s been great hearing about your business. I really liked hearing about how often you’re iterating and making these changes, sometimes even on a

00:32:43:07 – 00:32:44:08

monthly basis that’s

00:32:44:10 – 00:33:08:18

so inspiring that you’re so agile and dynamic. My question relating to that is how you communicate those changes to returning clients. And have you ever had any pushback from them like, oh, things were different last time or, oh, you don’t do this anymore? Or do you find there generally improvements that you’re making? So they’re happy with these changes? Thank you.

00:33:09:05 – 00:33:42:16

Now, thanks for the question, Dallas. Actually, that’s a good one, because I literally had this like last week. So first with clients, what I’ve found is that if you’re just confident in the way you come across to them and go, this is what we’re doing now, they’re like, OK, cool. And you know, I’m going to give them room to its when you like, I’m sure you’re like, OK, so I want to do this, but you know, let me know how it goes. And then they kind of I think of clients like toddlers, like, you can just give them boundaries and then you’ll be fine. So, for example, I used to do edits a digital reveals, so I get that back in April with a client.

00:33:43:19 – 00:34:15:23

And then she came back this month, whatever August, and I was like, Oh, I’m doing something different now. I now move to unedited reveals. So I’m like, You see more images, but you’re you’ll get to see it much quicker. And so you have more options. So I think you always have to whenever you’re changing stuff for clients, you just always have to position it so they can see what’s in it for them because basically every to know what’s in it for me. How is this a good thing for me? And so you need to be able to when you can say that to them confidently, it’s not a it’s not a big issue.

00:34:15:25 – 00:34:58:00

The same thing with pricing. So for me, it’s a little different because return clients don’t pay a session fee so they don’t see any changes that I make. And I don’t I don’t like double my prices overnight. So any change that they will come back to would be like maybe 20 percent or so. So. And what they’re ordering might be slightly different. So I haven’t run into any kind of issues. Obviously, if you’re doing going through a big actually with weddings, if you’re going through a big change like like, you’re literally doubling your prices overnight, then if you’re doing that, then you’re knowing that you’re going to lose some clients and that is a decision you made.

00:34:58:05 – 00:35:12:22

You have to be comfortable because you’re changing levels, and so that’s something you’d have to be comfortable knowing. So it does depend on the type of changes you’re going to make. But in general, if you could just tell the clients why this is a good thing for you, then it’s not a problem.

00:35:13:20 – 00:35:26:03

Thank you, Dallas. One of the things that you like you just said right now is you’re going to lose clients. But the wonderful thing is that they’re going to be replaced by clients who are going to be paying you even more.

00:35:26:13 – 00:35:28:15

Absolutely. Absolutely.

00:35:28:26 – 00:35:47:25

And I feel that kind of ties into the next part that I want to talk to you about with is your social media account. One of my favorite things that you said in your podcast episode with Nikki is that you’re not trying. You’re not going to make more money by lowering your prices. You’re going to do that by

00:35:49:20 – 00:36:21:27

getting more people in your front of your lens. Yeah. So I wanted to talk to you about the different, different ways you go, how to go about doing that with just video. I wanted to go ahead and talk about your Instagram is you seem to have so much invested into the Instagram ecosystem where I’m seeing you have Reels IGTV, you have an amazing bio. You even have guides that are set up in your Instagram.

00:36:22:08 – 00:36:29:22

Can you talk about a little bit about your process of how you go ahead and create content for the different aspects of Instagram?

00:36:30:09 – 00:37:14:26

OK, yeah. So first of all, I think definitely pick one or two platforms too, because I just got I just got overwhelmed. There was Instagram, there was Facebook, there was LinkedIn, there was Pinterest. Then there was tech talk. I was like, No, I can’t do this anymore. So I was like, I didn’t never even bother. It was like, This is clearly too old for this. Well, but I think the best advice I heard was pick one or two platforms. So I took sat down. I looked at where I was getting most of my clients from and it was Instagram. So so everything I do, I do have a scheduler so that I everything that creates on Instagram I can then send to Facebook to linkedIn to Google my business to soon to Pinterest, you know, but Instagram has kind of where I’m creating content for.

00:37:15:02 – 00:37:50:05

And so obviously, I feel all these creators books for us, obviously, to do your post. And that’s easy because we’re photographers. So that’s great. But then then because I think maybe like five or six years ago, all you had to do was share a portfolio and you’re good. You know, you get your followers, get your likes. It’s all great. But now people want to be educated on Instagram. So now it’s about what educating your clients, giving them tips. And like this? I mean, there are lots of I’m sure Sue will have something on this, but they’re not.

00:37:50:07 – 00:38:06:11

Yes, she does. She has like the like the blogging stuff and the twenty seven paths, and it’s just like all the different messages you should be giving to clients on Instagram, right? And so then I split it up and then obviously, they had the recent messaging where Instagram is no longer photo sharing app. It’s now a video app.

00:38:06:26 – 00:38:07:19


00:38:08:17 – 00:38:38:22

It’s like, OK, great, you’ve been a video app for a while, but it’s cool. So, so it’s, and so Instagram really wants you to be targeting using all as many of your different offerings as possible, and then that’s how they’ll push the content. I can’t. I’m not a content creator. You know, some people are there and they’re doing like five reels a day and they’re doing 10 posts a week and they’re just on it all the time. And I try to keep up with that. And I just ended up leaving Instagram for like a month because I was like, This is too much like this.

00:38:38:28 – 00:39:15:08

This is like a full time job, and it is because people get paid to do this stuff. So it was just like as long as you’re turning up consistently, whether it’s once or twice a week on Instagram, but just your clients knowing when to expect you, it doesn’t matter how much you’re posting, you know. And also, I stopped caring so much about the likes and going viral. It’s more just presenting my content to the right person can find me when they need me. So it’s Instagram’s. Not always for me, not always an immediate kind of lead. But I will have clients who have followed my Instagram, for two years, for three years, whatever and when it’s time they will come and find me.

00:39:15:14 – 00:39:55:29

So in terms of Instagram, I do the posts, obviously. I mean, reels were super easy to do. I find them easier than Tik Tok, you know, and they’re fun. So I just usually just scroll through like the reels and see what’s what, what audio is trending and and what themes of trending and then jump on something that works for my photography. So those are those are simple to do and video slideshows you can do. Those are fun. Clients always want to see behind the scenes. So that’s and that’s a great one to do for Reels as well, because for Reels, Instagram will share things that are either educational or funny, so you can do one.

00:39:56:01 – 00:40:26:21

You can do either or both. But if they won’t share things that just like this is my portfolio, they won’t share that it won’t go as viral as other stuff. So it’s just it’s just listening to the trends and kind of knowing what you should follow, but you definitely need to at least be doing that, do your post, do your reels because it’s so simple and do do a couple of lives or IGTV. And the guides were simple. Just so I think the key thing is to repurpose your info. So if you have blog posts, you can now turn those into carousels.

00:40:26:23 – 00:40:56:11

Instagram likes Carousel, so just have five slides that people can then save and come back to. You know, you can turn them into reels. You know, anything that you any part the person, the apply and process that you share with clients, give them information. You just repurpose that. And I think if you can, you could probably go back. And if you’ve been blogging or creating content for like a year plus, you’ll have a lot of stuff you can repurpose. So the key is just to pick one platform and be consistent, but it doesn’t have to be every day a couple of times with Instagram as fine, can you?

00:40:56:13 – 00:41:03:27

Can you explain that a little bit like how are you repurposing a blog on Instagram through a carousel? I’m not too familiar with.

00:41:04:06 – 00:41:35:10

OK, so is it, you know, Canva? Yes. OK. So I mean, I just I love my I still to understand how it’s free. I’m going to have the pro version, but I was just like the best creation ever. So like if you have a blog post where you say five location, I don’t have a portrait photographers how to look good in photos, you know, maybe you have a lead magnets or something and you have five tips. Then just go to Canva. You pick a card. Typing carries the Instagram carousel. It’ll show you a couple of templates and then just copy over and just copy with information.

00:41:35:12 – 00:42:06:24

Maybe you had five headings in your blog post, then just have five slides, you know and include. And the way I like, it’s like what I did was how to prepare for your photo shoot. And so I had five slides and it talked about How do you want to do your hair? Do you want to add to the cultural aspect? What color is your what do you want to do? Do you want to do personal branding or are you going glam, you know? And each one was a different slide, and it had a different picture from clients are showcasing my work, but I was also helping giving clients information that they needed to do.

00:42:06:26 – 00:42:25:04

And they’ve got a lot of saves and got a lot of great feedback. And and it got a couple of inquiries as well. So it’s just just think about how is this beneficial to clients again, coming back to what’s in it for me? What’s in it for the clients? And if you can figure that bit out, then it may suit you get a lot better results.

00:42:25:24 – 00:42:37:08

Yeah, when I do the exact same thing with Instagram carousels and they always get so much saves and they’re so like easy to create and can do the same exact thing and do it in Canva.

00:42:39:00 – 00:43:23:03

But it’s it’s I think sometimes it can be time consuming doing like the first one. But once you kind of make your own little template from a template and Canva with your brand colors and everything, it gets easier. And if you would just pay attention to like for those of you listening who may not know exactly, we can’t picture what the carousel post is. Just start paying attention when you scroll through Instagram. Because so many accounts do that. Maybe you follow like a shopping account. Or maybe you follow like a marketing account or something, you know, you’ll like, you see them every on every single big type of account, like one that comes to mind is that Every Girl does them a lot.

00:43:23:11 – 00:43:32:18

So, yeah, if anyone’s listening in my kind of confused about what we’re talking about, I would just say open up Instagram and start scrolling or going to see what we mean in a couple minutes.

00:43:34:05 – 00:43:43:21

Wani do you doyYou have any advice on blogging or SEO strategy for your website? Is that something that you still do? I know you have a blog on your website.

00:43:44:16 – 00:44:15:01

Oh yeah. Oh God. Yeah, I feel a little bit bitter myself and I paid. I did a Black Friday, hired someone for SEO and they did OK keywords. But and then I did a free call with someone else and they were like, they gave you keywords that have no traffic to them. And I’m like, OK, oh yes, I am very bitter, very bitter about it. But yes, I do, because I like blogging because again, because I try and hit all the marketing baskets. So marketing things you need to do.

00:44:15:03 – 00:44:46:07

You have your website and SEO, you have your social media, you have your client referrals, you have your videos, you have your ads, you know, you have your blogging, you have your vendor partnership, you have your email marketing. So like, there’s a whole ton of things you can be doing for marketing and you never want to just put your eggs in one basket you want to be because some will give you immediate results and a more long term. And SEO blogging is great because those is just the gift that keeps on giving, right? Like once your ranking, once the information is out there. Google likes you.

00:44:46:14 – 00:45:21:15

You can start getting a lot, a lot of inquiries, you know, and a lot of eyeballs on your site. So it is important. There is a great video on the website and on SBE, which I think was Rob Greer where I used that in the initial first phase to just kind of like make sure I had my keyword set, make sure make my structure was set up right there. All these little changes you can make immediately that will help your website. And then and then obviously you can take it to the next stage where you hire someone else to do the keyword research and all of that.

00:45:21:17 – 00:45:52:03

But definitely I would for that. I would just say, make sure you pick someone who has worked with someone you know, because there’s so many like cowboys out there in terms of blogging again. It’s I used to just blog like here, my clients, and they’re so pretty and awesome, and you should be my client too. But Google is not that interested in that. So it’s again, why should you do a portrait session? How do you get ready for your portraits? This is where you can buy boudoir lingerie. Oh, this is the ways you can use your photos.

00:45:52:05 – 00:46:26:11

So again, it’s a good tip I got was if you type into Google like a question and then see what other questions are coming up, then you can see what clients are asking. You can see popular questions, clients are asking if you can create a blog post around that. So, you know, definitely recommend blogging. And again, you can you don’t have to necessarily be blog every week and it’s like, I can’t do that. But like, I blog time like once or twice a month, you know, because I always have a wedding and portrait website. So it’s a little bit much. But yeah, just be consistent, you know? And then that blogger can use it for email marketing.

00:46:26:13 – 00:46:34:06

You can send it to Instagram, and then social media can make a video. You can go on YouTube. Like, there are lots of ways you can repurpose repurpose for content.

00:46:34:21 – 00:46:45:07

Do you do like batch? Do you batch your content or do you just try to like once a month, sit down and write that one blog post for the month or the Instagram content for the month?

00:46:45:22 – 00:47:09:09

When I’m really organized, I will sit down for a day, and I can batch all my content for a week or two, which is amazing, but that rarely happens. Usually I’m like, Oh no, I haven’t done it. And then I’m like, Well, I’ll sit down and do it. So I am aspiring to batch because that is the best way to do it. And it’s just it means you’ll be more consistent and you’re less panicking, but you know, done is better than perfect. That’s kind of my philosophy and these things.

00:47:09:19 – 00:47:29:21

Yeah, totally. I always aspired to batch two and sometimes I’m very successful. And then sometimes it’s like I just had too much going on in my life to do practice what I preach. But when I do batch content like everything is like, so smooth and on top of it, and I’m like, Wow, I

00:47:29:23 – 00:47:38:09

know you feel like you’re like a grown up. You’re like, Oh, I’m so organized, I’m so great. But it doesn’t happen often enough, sadly. So, yeah, work in progress. Yeah.

00:47:40:07 – 00:48:09:02

So Wani we brought up the idea of choosing two, maybe three social media platforms to focus your attention on one of the ones. Obviously, one of the main ones has always been Facebook at this point. Are you finding yourself creating content specifically for Facebook or what do you feel the purpose is of Facebook for photographers nowadays? Is it just a storefront to show that you exist or repurposing your content repurposing onto it from Instagram.

00:48:09:25 – 00:48:41:00

I think, honestly, I think it really depends on your client and this way you have to go. Go back. If you’ve been in business for a couple of years, like I like to every year I sit down and I say, Where did all my friends come from? I’d be like, Oh, 50 percent came from Instagram, 38 percent of came from referrals. None came from Facebook. So you need to. It depends on who your clients are. My general impression is that thirty five and under are kind of on Instagram and then people older kind of forty five and definitely above 50 are on Facebook.

00:48:41:02 – 00:49:12:06

They don’t do Instagram as much. So if you are targeting like 50 over 50 campaign, then Facebook, you definitely need to be on there. But if you’re shooting seniors, I guess if you’re targeting moms so perfect, you’re using seniors to target seniors. You want to be on Instagram, but to target the moms as seniors, you’d want to be on Facebook, right? So I think the best thing, I think it makes sense to be on both platforms. You can have one primary platform and then just share. I mean, it’s not ideal to like post on Instagram and share it to Facebook.

00:49:12:16 – 00:49:44:22

But again, I’m like done, is better than perfect. And if I’m not going to create something different for Facebook, at least let me share the content. So it’s there. And and if you can take it a step further, then you can use the scheduler. So then I’ll schedule things at different times so that because the truth is that people don’t. We always assume that everyone’s on online all the time. But if I post something now, not everyone might see it. So if I put something, maybe an instrumental four o’clock now posting on Facebook, I like six o’clock, you know, and then maybe they’ll have a higher chance of catching it.

00:49:44:28 – 00:50:00:02

So scheduling is important, but you need to do the work. You need to know where your clients are to know who your target client is and that would determine it. So if we’re older clients, they’re definitely on Facebook. You need to be there for younger clients, typically on Instagram. You need to be there.

00:50:00:21 – 00:50:19:18

Perfect. I like your you’re pointing out that done is better than perfect because even though you know, ideally you want to create content for mom on Facebook and ideally you want to make content for the teenager would be on Instagram. If you don’t have the time, it doesn’t matter. Just pump it out exactly get it out there.

00:50:20:20 – 00:50:41:09

You do better when you can. Honestly, I think we get stock. I used to get stock a lot on waiting to be perfect, and I would go months without doing anything. So now I’m just like, Just do it, just do it. It’ll be better next time. Just do it, you know? And I think we have we set high standards for ourselves. So we’re clients don’t stress as much as we do about our stuff. So it’s OK. Just just put the stuff out there, put yourself out there.

00:50:41:25 – 00:51:04:20

Do you also have a YouTube account? Because YouTube is like, you know, it’s such a search engine, just like Google is, and I know that you did your 40 over 40 campaign and saw you had IGTV videos like your different clients that you featured. So I was just curious, do you also put those on YouTube to get found more? Do you have any idea?

00:51:05:04 – 00:51:28:14

I mean, I thought about what it feels like a lot of work. So I do have my I try to claim my name on all the platforms because you just never know when you’re going to want it. So I do have a YouTube channel, but it’s like it’s there just to have a presence. I have uploaded a couple of videos just in case, because like you said, YouTube is the second largest search engine after Google. So but I mean, I had dreams of like having a YouTube channel, but honestly, like, I’m tired. So no

00:51:30:10 – 00:51:47:20

I’m like, like, no, I don’t have time for all of that. So I mean, I think about uploading all the videos when I’m like, There’s so many videos and I’m already on Facebook and Instagram. So I’m like, you know, a Google is going to have to find me that way because I’m good. So the shows that I don’t put more stuff on YouTube

00:51:48:08 – 00:51:50:05

that makes sense, that it’s overwhelming.

00:51:50:24 – 00:51:51:23

It is overwhelming.

Before I forget what is the schedule that you’re using to be able to put your posts out there?

00:51:57:06 – 00:52:28:03

And I use because I’m trying, because I blog, I also post to LinkedIn and Google my business. I use the Loomly So that’s l o o m l y. So it’s a little more expensive, but it allows me to post to all the platforms, which I find really helpful. But if you just want to post to Instagram, Facebook, Pinterest, then I can recommend later. That’s really good. I think they have a free preference to show they have a free option. And then depending on how many platforms you want to post to, then you can have a paid option.

00:52:28:05 – 00:52:35:28

But they’re really good and they get lots of like education as well. So definitely they are latr. LATR, they’re really good as well.

00:52:36:14 – 00:52:43:02

Does it let you post a really like does what you create schedule a real or is it just those posts?

00:52:43:12 – 00:53:10:03

No, no, no. Instagram. Instagram will let you schedule a real. That’s. Yeah, you can do. VIDEO Can you do videos? You can do videos on Facebook. But yeah, I don’t think you can post videos on Instagram. I have to check back. But yeah, Instagram has its rules. But also there’s also obviously creative studio where you can schedule to both Instagram and Facebook, and that’s free. Facebook’s own tool, so, yeah, there’s that, yeah,

00:53:10:24 – 00:53:35:24

that’s really helpful. Thanks for sharing that. All right. So one last question for you. One, before we have to get into our closing questions is what advice would you give to people who are just starting out in defining their brand and deciding how they’re going to present themselves online? What is the number one thing that you think people need to walk away knowing? Mhm.

00:53:36:15 – 00:54:06:26

I think you need to give yourself time because I think it depends on how early in your brand you are. Because if you’re just a starting photographer, then it takes time to figure out what kind of photographer you are. We shoot a lot of everything and you it takes time to figure out your style and how you want to present yourself. So I would say, don’t commit, don’t spend huge amounts on your logo or packaging or anything. Give yourself time. Keep it simple, you know? And then then once you’re like a year or two in and then you have a good idea of who you are, then you can.

00:54:07:02 – 00:54:38:01

You can really focus on the branding of your I mean, what do you do? If its a logo. If you’re doing note cards, you know, and whatever else you’re trying to create and then and your brand and people, almost more things you’re branding needs to be consistent. So if branding is the way acclaimed feels about you, then you know the way Apple is recognizable anywhere Pepsi, Google, you know, if I say these names, I’m sure the image pops into your head. We know who they are. We know what they look like. So we know if they would spot a fake apple a mile away.

00:54:38:03 – 00:55:09:00

If, like the, Apple was slightly off with the logo is slightly off. So an apple is a perfect example of this, from this store to their packaging to their online presence. You have that clean, minimalistic feel that is very much Apple is the core of who they are. Right? So you need to be consistent. So it’s not so simple as using the same image, same profile and headshot across your across your platforms. It’d be the same. LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram. So people see that face when they go.

00:55:09:02 – 00:55:44:12

It’s Wani. It’s actually, you know, it’s Kevin. They know who you are. So a lot of people like to put pictures of their clients, but that’s not. They do represent your brand. You represent your brand. And I think the sooner, the sooner, unless you’re like a team, which obviously that means, you know, just starting out in a way you I wanted to use the logo. If you are a solopreneur, solo photographer, then you should be the face of your brand so that people start. It’s that building that like trust factor. You know, if you people first have to know who you are and start to recognize you before they can move on to the next stages.

00:55:44:15 – 00:55:57:18

So be consistent. Use the same, use the same logo. He’s the same picture used the same fonts across all your platforms. That is like the first. I think that’s probably the biggest mistake people make when they’re trying, starting out, branding.

00:55:58:18 – 00:56:05:01

That’s fantastic. And to finish it off, do you have any advice on how to create engagement for your social media pages?

00:56:05:17 – 00:56:13:12

Oh, isn’t. Isn’t that the overall question? Like if you were asking Instagram and reels are a really good way to build like

00:56:15:08 – 00:56:46:18

a really good way to kind of build that engagement, you know, especially if you’re doing something that you know, like if the good trend then and it’s something that’s slightly funny or just like fun. You know, I know I don’t think you should try to be someone you’re not, but kind of work with your personality. And because I think I might only get like 20 likes on the post, but in a reel I’ll get like two thousand views, which I’m like, Well, all these people are where they’re coming from, but you know, so that’s a really good way, and I get a lot of followers that way as well. So if you just want to do one thing on Instagram, definitely.

00:56:46:20 – 00:56:56:16

I think to start with Reels, those are easy to do when we have to be like 15 seconds, you know, and they can they can actually really work on increasing your exposure.

00:56:57:00 – 00:56:58:18

Yeah, 15 seconds is all you need.

00:56:58:26 – 00:57:00:09

That’s exactly done.

00:57:01:11 – 00:57:12:09

Well, Wani it has been an absolute pleasure having you with us. We are hitting the one hour mark. So I want to be sure to give people the opportunity to hear where they can find you.

00:57:12:29 – 00:57:28:10

Oh, cool. I am Wani Olatunde portraits on Instagram, Facebook, Wani Olatunde for my wedding stuff. And then my website’s the same one. Wani Olatunde dot com. And Wani Olatunde portraits dot com pretty simple. Consistent everywhere.

00:57:29:28 – 00:58:05:24

Name of the game? Well, everyone, please, please, please go follow Wani and also make sure to follow the Portrait System on Instagram and Facebook as well. Also, be sure to check out the blog posts that are associated with our clubhouse interviews at If you are a member of Sue Bryce Education, you have any more questions for David, Ashleigh or myself go tag us in a post in the Sue Bryce Members Only Facebook group. If you are not a member of Sue Bryce Education, and you are interested in learning more about how we can help you and your business succeed, email Ella with support at

Thank you again for joining us and we hope you can join us next week.

Thanks again for listening today. And don’t forget, you can listen to either me or our special guests every Friday on Club House at 11:00 a.m. Pacific. Thank you so much for listening to the Portrait System Podcast. Your five-star reviews really help us to continue what we do. So, if you like listening, would you mind giving us a review wherever you listen? I also encourage you to head over to, where you can find all of the education you need to be a successful photographer. There are over 1,000 on-demand educational videos on things like posing, lighting, styling, retouching, shooting, marketing, sales, business, and self-value

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